Poll If they admitted it wasn't PRIME?

[Bad Thoughts]

The essential problem with prequels. The Star Wars prequels were designed to show the rise & fall of the Jedi order, Anakin Skywalker, and even Padme, but no one really cared because we already knew the Jedi were largely killed off, the twins' mother dies, and Anakin became Vader, so his prequels journey was of no importance when his future as a monster was already established. Prequels made decades after the fact only create more problems of inspiration (never as strong as the original work), art direction or motivation.

I would argue that the essential problem of the Star Wars prequels was bad dialogue and bad stories. For the life of me, I can't understand how the "first time" speech ever survived the cutting room floor. Conversely, parts of the Clone Wars series were excellent, despite being squeezed between two movies.

Even in Star Trek itself, Enterprise in particular, it was more rewarding when episodes dealt with familiar subjects, like the Andorians and Tellerites, and mined stories that showed the birth of the Federation.

 

[Rahul]

Though, I'm also the guy who enjoys watching sporting events even after knowing the score, so what do I know?

Dang, you might have struck gold there!
You might have accidentally unleashed the perfect analogy about how different people feel about prequels!
I, for example, can't watch a taped version of a football game once I know the outcome. It's just boring to me. I need the excitement of not knowing the final result to be able to feel the thrill of the moment of each attack/defense. Once I've been spoiled, there really is no reason for me to watch the entire thing, not even to analyze the performance of particular players.

Guess what? I'm also not a big fan of prequels, all things considered. But I know plenty of people completely different than me in this regard.

 

[Rahul]

Even in Star Trek itself, Enterprise in particular, it was more rewarding when episodes dealt with familiar subjects, like the Andorians and Tellerites, and mined stories that showed the birth of the Federation.

I would friendly disagree with that point. For me, season 3 of Enterprise was more entertaining than season 4, simply because we really didn't knew how the Xindi-plot would shake out in the long run (except "Earth's probably gonna' make it").

I liked seeing Tellarites in action, but alone that wasn't enough to hold me. It was mostly the Jeffrey Comb's character of Shran and his relationship with Archer that made this part of ENT for me interesting - partly, I belive, because the outcome here wasn't pre-determined.

But then, yeah, I totally give you the writing being the main point: I think Seasons 3 & 4 are vastly superiour to 1 & 2, simply by virtue of having way better writing.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

I would friendly disagree with that point. For me, season 3 of Enterprise was more entertaining than season 4, simply because we really didn't knew how the Xindi-plot would shake out in the long run (except "Earth's probably gonna' make it").

I liked seeing Tellarites in action, but alone that wasn't enough to hold me. It was mostly the Jeffrey Comb's character of Shran and his relationship with Archer that made this part of ENT for me interesting - partly, I belive, because the outcome here wasn't pre-determined.

How did you feel about the Temporal Cold War, Braga's attempt to make Enterprise "fresh?" That tied together much of the series, meant to make it seem as if something was at risk, but produced awkwardness when it came to tying Enterprise to the franchise.

 

[Gonzo]

Oh no, that's fine. Go ahead. I was just concerned with a poster bringing up one of King Daniel's threads that got picked up on io9 as a means of criticizing him.

Ah ok that's fine then, I just found it a bit unreasonable to equate a change of size on the Kelvin films to the wholesale Klingon design/style/name changes we have seen on Discovery, especially when we consider the fact that they kept Starfleet ships the same.

They just don't compare.

 

[Longinus]

I don't mind prequels as such, I just dislike prequels which either insist telling pointless fanwanky stories about stuff we already know, or on the other extreme, redefine the era completely and insert huge setting shattering events and technologies. If you're doing more traditional ' a starship explores space, meets stuff' you can insert it in pretty much any Trek era you like, without running into problems. There is also some backstories that might be worth exploring in prequels, 'how Klingons lost their ridges' was not one, 'how Cardassians went from a peaceful and enlightened society into a military dictatorship' might be.

 

[Rahul]

How did you feel about the Temporal Cold War, Braga's attempt to make Enterprise "fresh?" That tied together much of the series, meant to make it seem as if something was at risk, but produced awkwardness when it came to tying Enterprise to the franchise.

I thought the Temporal cold war was a hell of a great premise, and I really liked both the concept and the execution (make-up, vfx) of the Suliban. And I think, as a concept, is way more fresh, imaginative and interesting than "hey, let's have another war with the klingons".

That being said: They completely fucked up the execution. It was quite obvious from the very first "cold war"-episodes on that they had no greater story arc planned out, no plot points and no resolutions in mind, and not even the major conflict clearly defined, and just used it as a background namedrop to tell their run-of-the-mill plot's of the week.

If a talented writer came up and said he'd like to re-visit the temporal cold war, I would not be opposed to it! As it was presented, as a thread in the background that lead nowhere, it really was one of the biggest blunders of early Enterprise.

 

[Michael]

When did this whole bullshit with labeling something “Prime” or not start anyway? Only with the Star Trek movie in 2009? As far as I remember this was never important before. It's astonishing how people make it this big decisive thing now, acting like it was this long-established identifier.

One word: Lost.

Can't say I agree. Love rewatching seasons of Lost every couple of years.

 

[Longinus]

When did this whole bullshit with labeling something “Prime” or not start anyway? Only with the Star Trek movie in 2009? As far as I remember this was never important before. It's astonishing how people make it this big decisive thing now, acting like it was this long-established identifier.

As long as there is just one of the thing, labelling is not needed. Before Abrams films, there was just one Star Trek continuity. In this context admitting it is not Prime just means admitting that it is a reboot and doesn't attempt to maintain continuity with previous Trek. And if that were confirmed, fans would come up with a name for this new continuity. 'Discoverse', probably.

 

[Michael]

As long as there is just one of the thing, labelling is not needed. Before Abrams films, there was just one Star Trek continuity. In this context admitting it is not Prime just means admitting that it is a reboot and doesn't attempt to maintain continuity with previous Trek. And if that were confirmed, fans would come up with a name for this new continuity. 'Discoverse', probably.

That's true, I guess. I'm just a little annoyed at the volume of people making such a fuss about this. Prime, prime, prime – it's practically in every thread. I just think it's funny this seems so important to people now when it wasn't really a thing just a couple of years ago.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

While the use of the Prime-verse label certainly drastically increased after the release of the Abramsverse/Kelvinverse films, I seem to recall that term being used even earlier to differentiate between the MU and Prime universes, or between the Novelverse and Primeverse. And of course, it wasn't just limited to Trek.

 

[Tuskin38]

Wasn't Leonard Nimoy credited as 'Prime Spock' in 09's credits as well?

 

[Nerys Myk]

How did you feel about the Temporal Cold War, Braga's attempt to make Enterprise "fresh?" That tied together much of the series, meant to make it seem as if something was at risk, but produced awkwardness when it came to tying Enterprise to the franchise.

Braga didn't like the idea or want to use it. So I'm not surprised the execution was less than stellar.

 

[Gonzo]

Braga didn't like the idea or want to use it. So I'm not surprised the execution was less than stellar.

I actually quite liked the whole Temporal Cold War story line, I also liked the Andorian and Tellarite action including the Romulan terrorism angle.

Just a shame it came too late.

I thought the whole Xindi storyline was boring as hell.

 

[F. King Daniel]

The Temporal Cold War could have been awesome, if they preplanned it. Instead, they never had a plan for anything, and everything contradicted everything else.

Shame.

 

[ITDUDE]

Wasn't Leonard Nimoy credited as 'Prime Spock' in 09's credits as well?

Indeed he was.

 

[Nerys Myk]

P'rime is his family name. Sarek and Amanda P'rime. Spock Prime. Sybok P'rime. Michael Burnham-P'rime.

 

[Rahul]

"Prime" is just a number anyway...

 

[SpocksOddSocks]

P'rime is his family name. Sarek and Amanda P'rime. Spock Prime. Sybok P'rime. Michael Burnham-P'rime.

And here was me thinking it meant he was currently leader of the Autobots

 

[ITDUDE]

And here was me thinking it meant he was currently leader of the Autobots

Well, he WAS leader of Autobots as Sentinel Prime

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