If "Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home" had been the last classic-era film

[McCoy's Disco Collar]

They would not have used a 3 year old movie model as the new ship. Especially not the Excelsior model, as vilified by fans as it was at the time.

Wait, the Excelsior was "vilified"? That wasn't my experience at the time. At all. I remember the design being quite popular. Lots of blueprints at conventions and the like.

The crew even used the Excelsior in the comics, didn't they? During the time between TSPS and TVH, when we didn't know there would be another Enterprise? And I don't remember anybody fussing when TNG started making extensive use of it.

 

[Burning Hearts of Qo'nos]

Hmm, one set of fans hating a new design that's not the Enterprise they know and love to the point that some remember it as being straight up 'vilified' versus another set of fans that LOVE the new design to the point of obsession seems pretty standard.

As a kid when I saw it the first time, all I thought was that Captain Stiles was super arrogant, that he needed that stick to let everyone know.

 

[thribs]

I think people didn’t like the idea of the Excelsior being Kirk’s next ship after the Enterprise. Hence the Enterprise-A

 

[fireproof78]

Wait, the Excelsior was "vilified"? That wasn't my experience at the time. At all. I remember the design being quite popular. Lots of blueprints at conventions and the like.

The crew even used the Excelsior in the comics, didn't they? During the time between TSPS and TVH, when we didn't know there would be another Enterprise? And I don't remember anybody fussing when TNG started making extensive use of it.

Yup. Looked fine.

 

[Dukhat]

Wait, the Excelsior was "vilified"? That wasn't my experience at the time. At all. I remember the design being quite popular. Lots of blueprints at conventions and the like.

The design was popular with the type of fan who cared about such things. To other fans who didn't, it was a symbol of vilification against the Enterprise crew.

The crew even used the Excelsior in the comics, didn't they? During the time between TSPS and TVH, when we didn't know there would be another Enterprise? And I don't remember anybody fussing when TNG started making extensive use of it.

Yes, the Excelsior was used in the comics, because what else was the crew going to use? The Enterprise was destroyed and the comic writers & artists weren't allowed to create a new one.

And TNG made use of the model because the budget at the time didn't allow new Starfleet vessels to be built, which was why they also used the Reliant and Grissom models as guest ships.

 

[Jedi Marso]

I would strike TFF from the record and all human memory if that was possible, but I thought VI was a good movie albeit some glaring flaws.

TVH would have worked as a final TOS film if needs be, although it was a bit open ended.
TUC was a nice send-off there at the end. It would have been even better if Generations had never been made.

 

[Ssosmcin]

In retrospect, I think the cast would have been well served by closing it off with TVH. Everyone involved loved making it, the public and critics were ecstatic and Star Trek was on a huge high. It's no more open ended than TMP was and I never felt the characters needed an ending. I'd be happy with them all together and going off on another mission.

I thought TFF was a fun time, if a ridiculous one and the mess of TUC ended the series on less of an upbeat note than I felt they deserved: a big smile with them getting a new ship and having further adventures vs the sadness and blah of a retirement none of them seemed to want (except maybe Scotty who just bought a boat). Neither of those two films were necessary, honestly, regardless of my enjoyment of them.

I loved Generations for a variety of reasons, but I would have been fine if the TNG guys kicked off with their own solo film.

 

[Dukhat]

In retrospect, I think the cast would have been well served by closing it off with TVH. Everyone involved loved making it, the public and critics were ecstatic and Star Trek was on a huge high. It's no more open ended than TMP was and I never felt the characters needed an ending. I'd be happy with them all together and going off on another mission.

I thought TFF was a fun time, if a ridiculous one and the mess of TUC ended the series on less of an upbeat note than I felt they deserved: a big smile with them getting a new ship and having further adventures vs the sadness and blah of a retirement none of them seemed to want (except maybe Scotty who just bought a boat). Neither of those two films were necessary, honestly, regardless of my enjoyment of them.

I loved Generations for a variety of reasons, but I would have been fine if the TNG guys kicked off with their own solo film.

I also agree that the best thing for the TOS cast would have been to end the movies with TVH. The three-movie arc had ended, and our heroes end up on a new Enterprise. The rest would have been left up to our imaginations. But instead of letting things lie and having TNG start a new generation of heroes, Shatner's studio-obligated POS movie about televangelists and a broken down new ship gets made, with the crew now looking far too old to be doing the things they did in that film (no, I did not like TFF as much as you did. And it was so bad that they had to made another movie to offset that one.)

If it had been up to me, I would have had the Enterprise-A at the end of the movie be a new filming model, which would then segue into the new TV series featuring a new crew. The TOS crew would also be phased out over time, going their separate ways and allowing the new actors to gradually take over. There wouldn't have been that huge gap in time between TUC and TNG where relatively nothing happens.

 

[fireproof78]

If it had been up to me, I would have had the Enterprise-A at the end of the movie be a new filming model, which would then segue into the new TV series featuring a new crew. The TOS crew would also be phased out over time, going their separate ways and allowing the new actors to gradually take over. There wouldn't have been that huge gap in time between TUC and TNG where relatively nothing happens.

I like this plan. This is a good plan.

 

[McCoy's Disco Collar]

The design was popular with the type of fan who cared about such things. To other fans who didn't, it was a symbol of vilification against the Enterprise crew.

Sure. But is there any evidence that there's any significant number of those latter fans?

Yes, the Excelsior was used in the comics, because what else was the crew going to use? The Enterprise was destroyed and the comic writers & artists weren't allowed to create a new one.

And TNG made use of the model because the budget at the time didn't allow new Starfleet vessels to be built, which was why they also used the Reliant and Grissom models as guest ships.

Yes. And there weren't any objections to any of those.

 

[Phoenix219]

I like this plan. This is a good plan.

Yes, yes it is. I could see a good number of the TNG characters mixed in with an aging/phasing out TOS cast, doing the same sorts of stuff that early TNG did, but with way more easter eggs, movie aesthetics and TOS callbacks. Kirk dealing with Wesley and children on the ship after what he just went through with David and Peter, for instance, could have been great. Basially Phase II, with Data as Xon, Riker as Decker, Troi as Ilia, the original TOS cast, plus the Klingon officer (in an era of HIGH tension with the Klingons, no less!) and the blind pilot. Pulaski as McCoy's daughter and eventual replacement could have been gold, but Crusher also works as the eventual replacement. It could have been a very fun show, and amazing to finally see weekly FX shots of the "A" / Connie II / Enterprise class refit.

 

[Dukhat]

Sure. But is there any evidence that there's any significant number of those latter fans?

No evidence that I can concretely give you. Why? Because I was there at the time, pre-internet, watching these films with my fellow Trek fans, going to conventions, and posting on the then-new-to-me internet newsgroups, and I knew first-hand of other fans' dislike of the ship. So I know what I'm talking about. Of course I can't prove any of this to you since there's no paper trail, so you'll just have to take my word for it. Or not. I don't care.

Someone like @Therin of Andor or @Maurice who are more in the know than me can correct me if I'm wrong, but the Excelsior was originally supposed to be Kirk and crew's new ship for future films, just like in the comics. But the fan backlash nixed that idea, and they brought back the TMP Enterprise instead, much to the consternation of the VFX personnel who hated filming it because it was too large and unwieldy.

And there weren't any objections to any of those.

There sure were. Even by TNG production staff like Andrew Probert, who felt that the movie filming models (and stock footage of space stations, Klingon BoP's, K'T'Inga's, etc.) were too old for the time period TNG was supposed to be set in. But the higher ups didn't listen to him because they wanted to use all that stuff to save money, which IMHO made TNG look cheap as hell. But that's another topic.

 

[Maurice]

Asking what was intended for the Excelsior presumes there was any sort of big plan in the first place. I'm sure someone thought it could be a replacement ship, but when any of these films were made there were no real plans for a sequel.

As to if it was widely accepted, I remember fans who described the Excelsior as a "pregnant guppy" and the like, sans affection.

 

[McCoy's Disco Collar]

No evidence that I can concretely give you. Why? Because I was there at the time, pre-internet, watching these films with my fellow Trek fans, going to conventions, and posting on the then-new-to-me internet newsgroups, and I knew first-hand of other fans' dislike of the ship. So I know what I'm talking about. Of course I can't prove any of this to you since there's no paper trail, so you'll just have to take my word for it. Or not. I don't care.

I was there too. Very active in a couple big fan clubs, attending and volunteering at cons. Your anecdotal experience is not evidence of a wider sentiment, but then again neither is mine.

Someone like @Therin of Andor or @Maurice who are more in the know than me can correct me if I'm wrong, but the Excelsior was originally supposed to be Kirk and crew's new ship for future films, just like in the comics. But the fan backlash nixed that idea, and they brought back the TMP Enterprise instead, much to the consternation of the VFX personnel who hated filming it because it was too large and unwieldy.

My understanding there is that it was the producers who were anticipating a fan backlash. And I'm not sure at all that was about the ship itself, but the name. It's pretty clear from their actions that they wanted to smash as big a "reset" button as they wanted. The end of TVH was about creating a new status quo that was as familiar as possible, undoing a lot of the development of the past three films. They wanted Captain Kirk and all six officers back on the Enterprise, even if the route they had to get there was a little convoluted.

 

[mb22]

Asking what was intended for the Excelsior presumes there was any sort of big plan in the first place. I'm sure someone thought it could be a replacement ship, but when any of these films were made there were no real plans for a sequel.

In the wake of TWOK's success, Time magazine (July 19, 1982) reported that "Paramount is planning eight tightly budgeted Star Trek films, one to be released every 18 months". If that actually was the plan at that point, it was no doubt more aspirational than practical.

http://content.time.com/time/subscriber/article/0,33009,953565-3,00.html

 

[Maurice]

Announcements are easy. Studios change plans as often as the average person changes underwear...probably more often.

 

[publiusr]

I like this plan. This is a good plan.

Phase II a few years late.

Withe TVH being last, it gives novel and comic writers a free hand at telling Refit era stories though…but we wouldn’t have TUC.

 

[McCoy's Disco Collar]

Sounds like a win-win.

 

[dupersuper]

Phase II a few years late.

Withe TVH being last, it gives novel and comic writers a free hand at telling Refit era stories though…but we wouldn’t have TUC.

Novel and comic writers had free reign to tell refit stories between 5 and 6. I know: I have many of them.

 

[Phoenix219]

Novel and comic writers had free reign to tell refit stories between 5 and 6. I know: I have many of them.

Growing up during the 90s, I always considered that the "third 5 year mission." Figured thats where Valeris came from, too, before I realized she was just Saavik.