I like TVH but it is definitely somewhat of an outlier. The goofy tone, no real villain, using a stolen Klingon ship and not the Enterprise, exc. TUC was a much more traditional ST story and a better way for the classic crew to go out.
If "Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home" had been the last classic-era film
- Thread starter Admiral Archer
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"More traditional", maybe. But not "better".
I would rather have the original crew go out with a story that gave each of them something to do, developed the characters consistent with everything we had seen to that point, and ended on an upbeat note with many adventures yet to come.
Forcing the crew into retirement for some reason left a very sour taste in my mouth, even if we last saw them enjoying one final joyride.
I would rather have the original crew go out with a story that gave each of them something to do, developed the characters consistent with everything we had seen to that point, and ended on an upbeat note with many adventures yet to come.
Forcing the crew into retirement for some reason left a very sour taste in my mouth, even if we last saw them enjoying one final joyride.
Yes, but they didn't just immediately switch over to the Excelsior. Directly after the Star Trek III comic book adaptation, ST comic series writer Mike W. Barr started a long, eight-part storyline in issues #9-16 called "New Frontiers" (more commonly known as "The Mirror Universe Saga" today, as that's the title it was collected under). The storyline concerned the evil Enterprise crew from "Mirror, Mirror" launching an attempted invasion of the Prime Universe. And, much like the beginning of Star Trek IV, issue #9 has Kirk & co. flying to Earth in their commandeered Klingon Bird-Of-Prey, although Barr had them rendezvous with Captain Stiles and the now-functioning Excelsior on the way. (It's also worth noting that eight-part stories were VERY unusual in early '80s comics, as "writing for the trade" wasn't really a thing yet. So I think Barr was likely vamping for time a bit with this long storyline.)
I'm sure many readers assumed that Barr would just have the crew take over the ISS Enterprise after the story was over, but Barr craftily destroyed the Mirror Universe Enterprise too, once again leaving Kirk & crew without a ship of their own. Issue #16 (cover date July 1985, meaning it was on the stands several months earlier) established a new status quo for the comic series with Kirk playing the press to maneuver Starfleet into not throwing the book at him. Grand Admiral Turner assigned Kirk and his crew to give the Excelsior a shakedown cruise to get him out of the way while the bad press died down, while the resurrected Spock went to command the Surak science vessel. And that was the status quo for the comics series until the time came for them to put everything back the way it was for the beginning of STIV. (And by that point, the ST comic had switched writers a couple of times.)
That's how it is in licensed comic book tie-ins in between movies. You basically have to vamp until you the studio lets you know what they're doing in the next film (with the studio approving your plans every step of the way, of course). So lots of fans in the early '80s assumed that the Enterprise crew was just going to switch over to the Excelsior for the subsequent movies, because that's what the comics did.
What else would the TNG series do? The Excelsior and Reliant models were too expensive for them NOT to use them, and the show couldn't afford to design and build all that many new Starfleet ships that early in the run.
Some of us griped but understood the rationale. Andy Probert tried to get around this in one case by doing a matte painting of an Ambassador class ship for the Enterprise to approach at the close of a first season episode, but the producers pulled out stock footage of the Excelsior again.
Ages ago I plunked the painting into a stock TNG effect to show how it might've looked.
And then with Quantel Harry-esque glows added.
I showed these to Andy and he said "yep" that that was the idea.
It could have made a nice 1701-A, had Barr have them abandon it thinking it was destroyed. Alas, he didn’t get the script.
Barr destroyed the Mirror Universe Enterprise in DC's Star Trek #12 (March 1985), meaning the issue went on sale in November of 1984. The script for Star Trek IV didn't exist yet.
Thanks for the breakdown! You are right that there were good reasons why the ship was used by the comics writers and television producers.
But they could do all that without any real pushback from fans because the Excelsior was not widely "vilified by fans at the time". Which was the only point I was trying to make.
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Gotcha. Yeah, I don't recall a lot of Excelsior hate back in the '80s, but I wasn't as connected with fandom at large back then. I know that in Cinefantastique some of the ILM effects artists were talking about how it was very difficult shooting the Enterprise model built for TMP (partly because of the extensive wiring setup for the lighting, and partly because they thought it looked odd from certain angles). ILM much preferred working with the Excelsior model they designed and built themselves.
I was young and all I had was Starlog to keep me in touch with Star Trek news and maybe a little fandom. I remember four distinct feelings on the ship:
1979 - "Wow that looks cool!"
1982 (seeing the Reliant): "They changed it too much." (I was kinda dopey)
1984 (seeing the trailer): "OMG the bridge was blown up!" (I was kinda gullible)
1986: "Ugh the Excelsior is ugly. No way they're gonna end up there."
1979 - "Wow that looks cool!"
1982 (seeing the Reliant): "They changed it too much." (I was kinda dopey)
1984 (seeing the trailer): "OMG the bridge was blown up!" (I was kinda gullible)
1986: "Ugh the Excelsior is ugly. No way they're gonna end up there."
I feel like there was something in the Best of Trek volumes that covered the Star Trek III era (volumes 8, 9, and 10) about the Excelsior being ugly and ungainly.
I grew up reading the comics of that era, and the Excelsior was the ship between the films, so I've always liked it. Yeah, she gets clowned by Kirk and Scotty in her first appearance, but she was cool and new in the comics -- and real problem with the ship wasn't the ship, per se. It was that Styles was a jackhole.
I grew up reading the comics of that era, and the Excelsior was the ship between the films, so I've always liked it. Yeah, she gets clowned by Kirk and Scotty in her first appearance, but she was cool and new in the comics -- and real problem with the ship wasn't the ship, per se. It was that Styles was a jackhole.
