If Star Trek and Star Wars fight, which side will win?
- Thread starter UssHell
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I can't believe I'm gonna comment in this...
In Scorpion, the Borg sent an armada after species 8472. Of course, it turned out to be their own Wolf 359. I think the ep opened with three cubes getting blown up - talk about a shocker! - but the armada was a dozen or more, that passed Voyager and tossed it around like a rag doll.
And wasn't it also in that ep, or one of the early Seven of Nine eps, where we saw a cube spin and rotate and fire multiple times?
And what is often forgotten in this... it's not just Starfleet/Federation vs Empire. This was set up as all of Trek vs all of Wars. So you'd have an armada of Borg cubes alongside several of the 8472 bioships... and their "big ass laser" when they link several of their ships together, or whatever that was, that destroys a planet as easily as the Death Star did.
Heck, we could include the Xindi in this, ya know? The Reptilians and the Insectoids can kick some ass. And they got a planet blower upper too.
I'm pretty sure the borg would not be able to adapt to a DS main gun shot. It's just too much raw energy.
Adapting to some little ship a tenth of its size plinking at it with phasers and photon torpedoes is one thing. Adapting to planet smashing energies is completely different. The Borg were faced by planetbusting weps before - Species 8472, and they coudl not adapt. Too much destructive energy to adapt to. The energy still has to go somewhere.
It would be the grandest, most impressive slap fight ever envisioned.
I should not be surprised that this thread is still going on.
Unicron would eat them both 
Seriously, though, Star Wars has large ships, but Star Trek has cloaking devices that allow firing while cloaked, timeships, the Scimitar, the Doomsday Machine, the Borg, Species 8472, and the Krenim. If a fleet of Klingon Birds of Prey firing torpedoes while cloaked doesn't get the ship, then pointing the Doomsday Machine at any Empire ship, including a Death Star, would get it done. Excluding that, the Scimitar's weapon could 1-hit kill any vessel of the Empire, as could Species 8472. They are also a telepathic race, which may make them vulnerable to Jedi/Sith telepathy, but they are also very alien and violent. The Krenim can simply erase anyone from existence if they wanted to, and the Borg would simply adapt to the Empire's weaponry after a few hits. Then you have the Breen and their weaponry, which cuts through Federation shields, leading me to believe it would make short work of the Empire.
James
Seriously, though, Star Wars has large ships, but Star Trek has cloaking devices that allow firing while cloaked, timeships, the Scimitar, the Doomsday Machine, the Borg, Species 8472, and the Krenim. If a fleet of Klingon Birds of Prey firing torpedoes while cloaked doesn't get the ship, then pointing the Doomsday Machine at any Empire ship, including a Death Star, would get it done. Excluding that, the Scimitar's weapon could 1-hit kill any vessel of the Empire, as could Species 8472. They are also a telepathic race, which may make them vulnerable to Jedi/Sith telepathy, but they are also very alien and violent. The Krenim can simply erase anyone from existence if they wanted to, and the Borg would simply adapt to the Empire's weaponry after a few hits. Then you have the Breen and their weaponry, which cuts through Federation shields, leading me to believe it would make short work of the Empire.James
Some people seem to be forgetting that the SW galaxy and it's inhabitant races are VERY stagnant in technological development, whereas the Federation alone portrayed a massive technological leap over the course of almost 300 years of it's existence (not to mention it's upcoming future).
The Federation has races in it that were warp capable for 2000 years before Humanity developed Warp capability.
And the technological growth only sped up exponentially once the Federation came into existence and technologies began to be shared (not to mention implemented to work in union with one another).
That is one of the main criteria I think that the SW weapons/defensive technology doesn't come close to what we saw in Trek (Federation in particular) and it's weapons/shield capabilities.
The SW races appear to have the same technologies for thousands of years without making any kinds of changes during that large span of time in order to evolve.
In short, they are stagnant.
They also lack numerous technologies that puts the Federation in a size able edge (like transporters, replicators, cloaking devices, etc ...).
The only real advantage the SW Empire would have is the Hyper-drive.
But if the battle would be waged in the Milky Way galaxy or a similar unknown territory, SW ships would have been often lost using hyper-drive because they would need to chart it first (that would take considerable amount of time).
And even then, that particular advantage gets nullified because the Federation in the late 24th century after Nemesis movie is entering an era in which it's surpassing known Warp velocities with faster ones along with the ability to implement new means of propulsion techniques for traveling FTL (one of which would enable them to traverse 10 000 LY's in 1 minute).
The Trek Milky Way galaxy weather some people like it or not are in a constant state of change when it comes to their technology and growth.
Star Wars galaxy not so, apart from some political changes.
The Federation has races in it that were warp capable for 2000 years before Humanity developed Warp capability.
And the technological growth only sped up exponentially once the Federation came into existence and technologies began to be shared (not to mention implemented to work in union with one another).
That is one of the main criteria I think that the SW weapons/defensive technology doesn't come close to what we saw in Trek (Federation in particular) and it's weapons/shield capabilities.
The SW races appear to have the same technologies for thousands of years without making any kinds of changes during that large span of time in order to evolve.
In short, they are stagnant.
They also lack numerous technologies that puts the Federation in a size able edge (like transporters, replicators, cloaking devices, etc ...).
The only real advantage the SW Empire would have is the Hyper-drive.
But if the battle would be waged in the Milky Way galaxy or a similar unknown territory, SW ships would have been often lost using hyper-drive because they would need to chart it first (that would take considerable amount of time).
And even then, that particular advantage gets nullified because the Federation in the late 24th century after Nemesis movie is entering an era in which it's surpassing known Warp velocities with faster ones along with the ability to implement new means of propulsion techniques for traveling FTL (one of which would enable them to traverse 10 000 LY's in 1 minute).
The Trek Milky Way galaxy weather some people like it or not are in a constant state of change when it comes to their technology and growth.
Star Wars galaxy not so, apart from some political changes.
...Of course, SW tech could be stagnant because it is already perfect, while ST tech still struggles with the basics.
Stormtrooper armor could be impervious to phasers and other such primitive beam weapons, for example, even though an average blaster gets through easily enough.
Timo Saloniemi
Stormtrooper armor could be impervious to phasers and other such primitive beam weapons, for example, even though an average blaster gets through easily enough.
Timo Saloniemi
Possible, but unlikely.
If Stormtrooper armor would be impervious to phasers and other 'primitive' beam weapons, blasters would be inefficient as well.
When was a blaster referenced it could blow up a building when set to overload or that it could disintegrate objects/people ?
To my knowledge, never.
A hand phaser on the other hand is able to do that, and more if I'm not mistaken.
Ships in SW look antiquated in comparison to Trek (I know looks aren't everything).
And if Solo's throwaway line is to be taken for granted, it takes 1000 star destroyers to destroy a planet.
DS vs 1 small 200 cm long torpedo.
I wonder who could pack a better punch.
Also, in the fight against the DS, even the Borg cubes would be able to outmaneuver SW larger ships at sublight, not to mention that practically none of the ST ships would ever be hit with a DS 'death beam' unless they are a sitting duck with impulse engines off-line in the middle of a fight.
Why? Modern flak vests can stop musket balls easily enough, but won't stop a rifle bullet. Analogously, a Wars blaster could be vastly more penetrating than a Trek phaser.
A musket could be used as a spear with an attached bayonet. A modern assault rifle, flimsy and short-barreled, has lost that capability - it is laughable as a piercing weapon, no matter what you attach to it, and can only be used for the slashing type of bayonet attack. As technology becomes more advanced, it often also becomes more specialized, thus less versatile.
There are issues on which Trek clearly has an edge. Transporters provide greater mobility than the vehicles of Wars, for one. But we cannot flat out argue that Trek computers would be smarter, or that Trek shields are better, or that Trek tractor beams are stronger. There is too much room for interpretation in the visuals there.
And the usual Wars practice of treating novelizations as canonical is not really applicable, because it would automatically place Wars at a disadvantage. It just won't do that Warsies have to bow to the limited imagination of a novelist when Trekkies are free to create their own flexible and optimistic interpretations.
Timo Saloniemi
Ahh, a sequel emerged when I was typing.
I'd say looks are nothing. Except, of course, in visual entertainment.
And if a centuries-old garbage can from Wars is better than a brand new starship from Trek, all the better for Wars...
As far as we know, no number of standard Trek starships is capable of destroying a planet. Not a thousand, not ten thousand. (Species 8472 ships can do that, though. But they'd probably side with the Empire!)
The DS, I think. The Genesis device was never shown to possess the ability to blow up planets.
Or are you referring to Soran's starkiller torp? For all we know, Warsies have similar technology (they do outside the visual canon, at any rate). And the destructive power derives from having a star around; the trilithium bomb isn't worth much against spaceships.
But if blasters are better than phasers, then all that (relatively aimless) saturation fire from the Wars ships would eventually riddle the enemy with holes no matter how much he maneuvered. The always perfectly hitting Trek beams might in turn prove incapable of harming Wars shields.
Seriously, such a fight would be interesting to see, no matter which kind of balance is established for ST beams vs. SW shields and vice versa. As you say, the propulsion technologies are different enough to make the combat extremely asymmetric and thus intriguing. A bit like watching a helicopter and a supersonic jet slug it out!
Timo Saloniemi
I'd say looks are nothing. Except, of course, in visual entertainment.
And if a centuries-old garbage can from Wars is better than a brand new starship from Trek, all the better for Wars...
As far as we know, no number of standard Trek starships is capable of destroying a planet. Not a thousand, not ten thousand. (Species 8472 ships can do that, though. But they'd probably side with the Empire!)
The DS, I think. The Genesis device was never shown to possess the ability to blow up planets.
Or are you referring to Soran's starkiller torp? For all we know, Warsies have similar technology (they do outside the visual canon, at any rate). And the destructive power derives from having a star around; the trilithium bomb isn't worth much against spaceships.
But if blasters are better than phasers, then all that (relatively aimless) saturation fire from the Wars ships would eventually riddle the enemy with holes no matter how much he maneuvered. The always perfectly hitting Trek beams might in turn prove incapable of harming Wars shields.
Seriously, such a fight would be interesting to see, no matter which kind of balance is established for ST beams vs. SW shields and vice versa. As you say, the propulsion technologies are different enough to make the combat extremely asymmetric and thus intriguing. A bit like watching a helicopter and a supersonic jet slug it out!
Timo Saloniemi
There was the Imperial Galaxy Gun introduced in the Dark Empire saga, which fired highly advanced warheads that had their own defenses and hyperdrives. The warheads could be adjusted in terms of power, but at the highest setting they could destroy a planet by causing a chain reaction in its core. The planet would rip itself apart.
As far as blasters vs. phasers, it's hard to say. From what I've read about blasters, they seem a bit more maintenance intensive because you need both a power supply and blaster gas, whereas the phaser only has a power supply. It's not clear which type of weapon is more efficient in terms of that supply, though personally I might be tempted to go with the phaser.
As far as blasters vs. phasers, it's hard to say. From what I've read about blasters, they seem a bit more maintenance intensive because you need both a power supply and blaster gas, whereas the phaser only has a power supply. It's not clear which type of weapon is more efficient in terms of that supply, though personally I might be tempted to go with the phaser.
I'd take a phaser over a blaster any day, too. It's just so nicely compact and versatile. But it would really ruin my day if it turned out the Stormtrooper armor stopped my beams.
I mean, it has to be good for something. And it clearly provides no protection against kinetic attack, so the likeliest function is as an anti-blaster shield. It won't stop a clear chest shot any more than today's flak jackets can stop a bullet - but we cannot tell how many Stormtrooper lives were ultimately saved by this armor, as they recovered from their glancing hits a couple of minutes after the camera turned away, were rushed to surgery, and lived to fight another day.
In any case, I guess that even if the armor stopped phasers, I could still defend myself with my Type II by collapsing a few buildings on the Imperials, or digging a deep ditch around them.
Timo Saloniemi
I mean, it has to be good for something. And it clearly provides no protection against kinetic attack, so the likeliest function is as an anti-blaster shield. It won't stop a clear chest shot any more than today's flak jackets can stop a bullet - but we cannot tell how many Stormtrooper lives were ultimately saved by this armor, as they recovered from their glancing hits a couple of minutes after the camera turned away, were rushed to surgery, and lived to fight another day.
In any case, I guess that even if the armor stopped phasers, I could still defend myself with my Type II by collapsing a few buildings on the Imperials, or digging a deep ditch around them.
Timo Saloniemi
How long would the Repulbic or Empire last with a several genesis device remaking key planets into uninhabitable bodies coupled with a few trilithium star collapsing warp driven torpedoes?
Another thing that's often forgotten is that SW combat typically involves fighters. Lots of fighters.
ST combat is usually capital ships against other capships. Towards the end of the Dominion war the UFP did seem to start experimenting with fighters, but they didn't seem to be present in great numbers.
In SW literal clouds of fighters hurtle all over the place in a battle.
The Enterprise facing down an ISD doesn't just need to worry about the ISD, but about the squad of TIEs off in the distance circling around while it's preoccupied with said ISD, to come in behind it and loose off volleys of heavy missiles.
Longer than the UFP. Once the DS was sent into the MW to commence retaliatory strikes, it would become a deadly war of attrition.
150 member worlds vs a million controlled inhabited star systems. It's not really hard math to figure who's going to run out of planets first.
Speaking of planets: Look at Coruscant. An entire planet covered 100% in skyscrapers soaring literal miles into the sky. Is there even a planet in ST like that?
ST combat is usually capital ships against other capships. Towards the end of the Dominion war the UFP did seem to start experimenting with fighters, but they didn't seem to be present in great numbers.
In SW literal clouds of fighters hurtle all over the place in a battle.
The Enterprise facing down an ISD doesn't just need to worry about the ISD, but about the squad of TIEs off in the distance circling around while it's preoccupied with said ISD, to come in behind it and loose off volleys of heavy missiles.
Longer than the UFP. Once the DS was sent into the MW to commence retaliatory strikes, it would become a deadly war of attrition.
150 member worlds vs a million controlled inhabited star systems. It's not really hard math to figure who's going to run out of planets first.
Speaking of planets: Look at Coruscant. An entire planet covered 100% in skyscrapers soaring literal miles into the sky. Is there even a planet in ST like that?
The DS for one thing would need A LOT of time to get anywhere at sublight, and as I mentioned before, it would also take years (probably decades if not a century or more) for the Empire or the Republic to chart areas of space of a new galaxy or territory in general to avoid getting lost or colliding into a star.
As for fighters ...
Simple ... have the larger/medium Trek ships go for Wars capital ships and the small ships engage the fighters.
Now if we presume the phasers would be effective against the empires shields along with Trek targeting systems and phasers that have a range of 300 000 km, the fighters wouldn't get anywhere near the smaller or larger ships.
Besides, larger ships could just as well fire off torpedoes and phasers from a distance of 200 000 km (which is several times bigger range in comparison to laser technology the Empire uses).
Also ... each Federation starship comes with shuttles.
If you want all of the bigger ships out of the fighter range, then use shuttles and runabouts to deal with them (which they have in abundance and can be run by a computer from a starship with no pilots anyway).
The Federation to my knowledge has several planet destroyer weapons that come in a size of a torpedo.
The Empire has one large battle station.
If the Rebel fighters broke trough all of it's defenses and were able to deliver a crippling blow to the main reactor, I'm pretty sure Trek shuttles and/or fighters would be able to do the same thing.
Not to mention the Borg or species 8472.
All this theorizing while fascinating ... we can safely reach one conclusion.
We don't know who would win.
It's true that both size have things that go into their favors, but that doesn't mean it would be enough to save either.
For all we know they are equal in power and would obliterate each other to a standstill.
As for fighters ...
Simple ... have the larger/medium Trek ships go for Wars capital ships and the small ships engage the fighters.
Now if we presume the phasers would be effective against the empires shields along with Trek targeting systems and phasers that have a range of 300 000 km, the fighters wouldn't get anywhere near the smaller or larger ships.
Besides, larger ships could just as well fire off torpedoes and phasers from a distance of 200 000 km (which is several times bigger range in comparison to laser technology the Empire uses).
Also ... each Federation starship comes with shuttles.
If you want all of the bigger ships out of the fighter range, then use shuttles and runabouts to deal with them (which they have in abundance and can be run by a computer from a starship with no pilots anyway).
The Federation to my knowledge has several planet destroyer weapons that come in a size of a torpedo.
The Empire has one large battle station.
If the Rebel fighters broke trough all of it's defenses and were able to deliver a crippling blow to the main reactor, I'm pretty sure Trek shuttles and/or fighters would be able to do the same thing.
Not to mention the Borg or species 8472.
All this theorizing while fascinating ... we can safely reach one conclusion.
We don't know who would win.
It's true that both size have things that go into their favors, but that doesn't mean it would be enough to save either.
For all we know they are equal in power and would obliterate each other to a standstill.
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