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If Romulus was ever destroyed.

Neutrino

Lieutenant
Hypothetical Trek scenario.

If Romulus was ever destroyed what do you believe would be the outcome? Would the Federation move in to help the Romulan colonies? or take a more aggressive stance and claim Romulan territory?
I have a feeling that the Klingon Empire would immediately take this as an opportunity to move against the Romulan Empire but what effect would this type of action have on the Klingon/Federation alliance?
Do you think the Romulan Empire would still be a major power if Romulus was wiped out in a natural catastrophe?
 
Some Romulan who survived would probably go back in time to meddle with the timeline and in the process destroy Vulcan and kill Kirk's father.
 
A Romulan named Nero would travel back in time to get his revenge.
 
A Romulan named Nero would travel back in time to get his revenge.

I am aware of this, but I was hoping for more ideas on what would happen on a larger basis such as a political and geographic (if that is the correct term) basis.

I was thinking beyond Nero travelling back in time. So for example once Nero has gone, assuming he is defeated and the timeline does not alter so that Romulus survives in the late 24th century but is still destroyed what would happen at that era between the various galactic powers.
 
I think it might cause the Klingons to become more aggressive towards the Romulans, sensing their weakness. I doubt the UFP would do much beyond sending aid and keeping the Klingons on a leash.
 
Losing Romulus would have absolutely no significant effect on the long-term power potential of the Romulan Empire. There is nothing on Romulus to make us believe otherwise. It is not a dilithium source. It is not an energy source. Ultimately, Romulus, just like every homeworld, is a net drain on the resources of the political whole, an economic sink with a population of surplus billions. Of course, the political whole was created in the first place by those billions to serve those billions, but doubtless its mechanism could survive without it. The center of power would no doubt move to a Romulan colony world.

The immediate effect of a decapitated government (a truly decapitated government, not the plucking of the government's eyelash we saw in Nemesis) would be profound, of course, but that sort of thing appears to occur frequently amongst the Roms--in relatively short order a charismatic fleet commander would assert a claim to the praetorate and the government would be in effect restored.

The Klingons would be ill-advised to engage in an opportunistic war with Romulus under such circumstances. The real power of Romulus would be unimpaired and devoid of support from their ally. If the Klingons are stupid and barbaric enough to pull a second "invasion of Cardassia," they don't deserve to be the Feds' allies.

I think politically Unification would become more feasible, especially in its weaker form of renewed cultural and economic ties with Vulcan. We could see a major shakeup ideologically in the new Romulan Senate that would eventually coalesce from the dominant fleet faction, that would put democratic reform on the table.* But it's equally possible that a shift in the opposite direction would occur, with an even more militaristic and isolationist group emerging from the chaos.

*For what it's worth, I know of no canon evidence that Romulus is not a broadly democratic body already, only that their civil liberties status could use improvement.
 
(Too late, I already preferred the D.) :p

I personally speculate that the Empire is largely run by an aristocracy and there is a great divide of haves and have-nots. I don't think it's exactly militarily run, as evidence by 'Nemesis's' military coup. Think Nazi Germany with the Tal Shiar filling in for the SS.

What would be most interesting to me, Romulan-wise, would be if the Empire gradually reformed into a Republic, the cold suspicion of ages past giving way to trust, freedom, and expression. A non-warmongering mirror of the Vulcans, if you will.

I would love to see such a state eventually petition for Federation membership, after subsequent reforms.

That would really piss the Klingons off. :rommie:
 
Could there be civil war perhaps?
I think that if Romulus was destroyed the resulting chaos throughout the rest of the Romulan Empire could be the first steps towards Federation membership for Romulan colonies. The Federation could be what brings order to the chaos.
 
^There could be, but ongoing civil war in Romulus is what turned me off to their portrayal in the novels... it demolishes the last enemy of the Federation who could stand alone. This is why they've created this "Typhon Pact," a collection of minor threats, the Sinister Six of the Star Trek universe.

Praetor said:
(Too late, I already preferred the D.) :p
I hold out the hope that you and all the sinners like you will repent.:devil:

I personally speculate that the Empire is largely run by an aristocracy and there is a great divide of haves and have-nots. I don't think it's exactly militarily run, as evidence by 'Nemesis's' military coup. Think Nazi Germany with the Tal Shiar filling in for the SS.
I concur, but an aristocracy originally similar to that of (well of course) ancient Rome... maybe more similar to the perception than the reality, but Rome of the time period of the first two Punic Wars. Not a purely exploitative aristocracy, but one also deeply invested in the welfare of the people as a whole, an aristocracy extremely parochial in outlook and communitarian in ideology, built on patronage and family, ties of blood and honor. Like the Roman aristocracy, it is facing its Marius and Sulla (or even its Caesar and Pompey) in the aftermath of the Reman Revolt. Without knowing it, a new and mercenary strain of political behavior is being introduced. It may also be justly and very much more relevantly compared with the Communist Party of China...

What would be most interesting to me, Romulan-wise, would be if the Empire gradually reformed into a Republic, the cold suspicion of ages past giving way to trust, freedom, and expression. A non-warmongering mirror of the Vulcans, if you will.

I would love to see such a state eventually petition for Federation membership, after subsequent reforms.
Everyone wants their favorite antagonists to turn into the good guys. :D Nerys Ghemor wants the Cardassians as a counter-Federation, you want the Romulans to be nice!

How much do we really know about Romulus? Is there reason to suspect that the state is totalitarian other than outsiders' opinions and ? The Tal Shiar exists and has an imposing presence, but while they appear brutal they also appear geared outward more than in... it is also significant that the vast majority of the Romulans we see are soldiers. We know even less of Romulan civil society than the Federation's--and we don't know a whole lot about the Federation's. :p I grant that Unification seems to suggest it's a somewhat drab society, but it's been ages since I've seen it. But I can't quite accept a completely totalitarian Romulan government... I've said it before--why bother leaving Vulcan if you're going to wind up boring anyway?

My personal notion of a perfect Romulan story is to see Unification... but not Romulan membership in the Federation. Take for that what you will. :shifty:

That would really piss the Klingons off. :rommie:

That is a good argument in its favor.
 
Heck I agree with you about the Typhon Pact. Oh no it's the Kinshaya and the Tzenkethi:rolleyes:. I guess the idea is to us the Pact as an attempt to balance the UFP in the AQ/BQ to which the Feds formed the KAA with the Klingons, Ferengi (stop laughing at the back;)) and possibly the Cardassians(still not sure yet:shifty:) oh yeah and the Talarian Republic! I must confess to being quite the astro-political junkie so I'm kinda looking forward to this.

I'm also of the neutral CU that would pose an alternative to the Feds and still cooperate. Why can't the Cardies be the good guys for once;).

As for the nature of the Romulan Star Empire(s) I imagine a certain level of democracy for the Romulan citizens( based on the senate) but with a strong intelligence arm and Military industrial complex. The problem is that it is not elaborated upon in any depth so I can't really judge for sure.
If whacking a few senators FUBB the RSE that badly then losing the homeworld would have destroyed the empire politically leaving only it's mighty fleets of Warbirds to seek vengeance:evil:.

My personal preference would have been for a Romulan/Cardassian alliance, that would have really pissed the Klingons off:devil:
 
Heck I agree with you about the Typhon Pact. Oh no it's the Kinshaya and the Tzenkethi:rolleyes:. I guess the idea is to us the Pact as an attempt to balance the UFP in the AQ/BQ to which the Feds formed the KAA with the Klingons, Ferengi (stop laughing at the back;)) and possibly the Cardassians(still not sure yet:shifty:) oh yeah and the Talarian Republic! I must confess to being quite the astro-political junkie so I'm kinda looking forward to this.

Oh no, not the Talarians (these are the child-beaters, right, not the guys who can't speak properly?)!

The Ferengi could be suitably powerful if handled correctly. They came through the Dominion War and (sigh) Borg invasion intact (afaik)... they're probably a major player by this point.

I'm also of the neutral CU that would pose an alternative to the Feds and still cooperate. Why can't the Cardies be the good guys for once;).
Because the Cards were laid prostrate at the feet of the Federation and made to confess their sins.:p I still say I'd vastly preferred to have seen them become Fed members.

As for the nature of the Romulan Star Empire(s) I imagine a certain level of democracy for the Romulan citizens( based on the senate) but with a strong intelligence arm and Military industrial complex. The problem is that it is not elaborated upon in any depth so I can't really judge for sure.
Concur.

If whacking a few senators FUBB the RSE that badly then losing the homeworld would have destroyed the empire politically leaving only it's mighty fleets of Warbirds to seek vengeance:evil:.
The subtext that's aggravatingly never made text in Nemesis is that the thalaron-armed Scimitar was hovering cloaked above Romulus for days for a reason, and that reason was to cow the Romulan Empire into submission. Notice that the moment the Scimitar left orbit, the Romulans rebelled. It may be possible that Donatra was feigning it the whole time--heck, maybe the novels tell us she was.

No one else had ever crossed that Rubicon of holding Romulus hostage to ensure the loyalty of his commanders. It took a deranged alien slave to do it, but I suspect it would brutalize Romulan politics in a way heretofore unseen.

And I'm not sure if I've mentioned this here, but the destruction of the "whole Senate" simply could not have happened. In Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges, we see a roomful of people who are on the Continuing Committee--an elite group, the inner circle of the Romulan Senate who dictate their will to the rest of a presumably much larger body. Tal'Aura kills a roomful of people at best two or three guys more numerous than the CC. So unless the Venn diagrams of the Senate and Continuing Committee are identical or nearly so, she didn't kill anyone but the very apex of the executive branch of the government. It annoys me greatly that the Romulan government, a government some two thousand years old, is so brittle that killing a roomful of jerks caused their society to collapse! It also annoys me that Tal'Aura, the woman who delivered billions of Romulans to the tender mercy of Reman slaves, somehow mustered enough support to get a single warbird, let alone hundreds or thousands.

My personal preference would have been for a Romulan/Cardassian alliance, that would have really pissed the Klingons off:devil:
Could be neat, and has historical precedent. Unfortunately, we're left with a wasteland kingdom with a functional democratic government and little interesting it's capable of doing and a strife-ridden empire riven by a battle between two quasi-extras, at least one of whom is a traitor to the Romulan people. Oh well.

Apropos of nothing, has TC Chairman Koval been up to anything lately? Or did he die when Tal'Aura turned "the whole Romulan Senate" into mulch?
 
^ Old Koval has gone to the halls of Ebrus. I think it is referred to in Taking Wing were he was assassinated by his successor (name unknown). A shame really, if the Romulan answer to Enabran Tain had survived he could have put Tal'Aura in her place.

I bet the Cardassians never expected the Federation inquisition! But seriously join the Feds? No way (at least not yet).

Yeah it's a same what happened to the Union and the Star Empire. The Cardassians had Dukat and the Romulans have Tal'Aura, good job guys!
Oh well maybe in a myriad universe it could have happened.
 
At least Dukat was arguably a patriot. The alliance with the Dominion looks idiotic in hindsight, but at the time it brought about a resurgence in Cardassian power and prestige like nothing else could have done. In a different universe (one without that meddling Ben Sisko!), Dukat might have been credited with bringing his people back from the bring of obscurity.

It was the easy way out and like easy ways out tend to do, it backfired; my reading on the Cardassians is that they are a culture who too often seek the easy way out. This is the societal basis for the dictatorship of the Central Command/Obsidian Order parternship. This is the intellectual basis for Tain's foolhardy attack on the Founder homeworld. This is the ethical basis for their employment of torture as a matter of course. And this is the emotional basis for Dukat's insane hatred of Bajor and Sisko.

Tal'Aura, by contrast, sold Romulus to a clone of a human who had led a revolt of Reman slaves, and we're never even told why, but I can't even imagine something more disgraceful to a Romulan, except maybe having a decent haircut.
 
^There could be, but ongoing civil war in Romulus is what turned me off to their portrayal in the novels... it demolishes the last enemy of the Federation who could stand alone. This is why they've created this "Typhon Pact," a collection of minor threats, the Sinister Six of the Star Trek universe.

That bothered me a bit too, but it does seem interesting.

Praetor said:
(Too late, I already preferred the D.) :p
I hold out the hope that you and all the sinners like you will repent.:devil:
Never! If it makes you feel better I do like the E, just not the massive plot device that gave it to us, or some of it's finer details. :shifty:

I personally speculate that the Empire is largely run by an aristocracy and there is a great divide of haves and have-nots. I don't think it's exactly militarily run, as evidence by 'Nemesis's' military coup. Think Nazi Germany with the Tal Shiar filling in for the SS.
I concur, but an aristocracy originally similar to that of (well of course) ancient Rome... maybe more similar to the perception than the reality, but Rome of the time period of the first two Punic Wars. Not a purely exploitative aristocracy, but one also deeply invested in the welfare of the people as a whole, an aristocracy extremely parochial in outlook and communitarian in ideology, built on patronage and family, ties of blood and honor. Like the Roman aristocracy, it is facing its Marius and Sulla (or even its Caesar and Pompey) in the aftermath of the Reman Revolt. Without knowing it, a new and mercenary strain of political behavior is being introduced. It may also be justly and very much more relevantly compared with the Communist Party of China...
Agreed on this. We seem to be on the same page.

What would be most interesting to me, Romulan-wise, would be if the Empire gradually reformed into a Republic, the cold suspicion of ages past giving way to trust, freedom, and expression. A non-warmongering mirror of the Vulcans, if you will.

I would love to see such a state eventually petition for Federation membership, after subsequent reforms.
Everyone wants their favorite antagonists to turn into the good guys. :D Nerys Ghemor wants the Cardassians as a counter-Federation, you want the Romulans to be nice!
It seems to be the only way we get to find out more about them. See Worf and Quark for examples. :p

How much do we really know about Romulus? Is there reason to suspect that the state is totalitarian other than outsiders' opinions and ? The Tal Shiar exists and has an imposing presence, but while they appear brutal they also appear geared outward more than in... it is also significant that the vast majority of the Romulans we see are soldiers. We know even less of Romulan civil society than the Federation's--and we don't know a whole lot about the Federation's. :p I grant that Unification seems to suggest it's a somewhat drab society, but it's been ages since I've seen it. But I can't quite accept a completely totalitarian Romulan government... I've said it before--why bother leaving Vulcan if you're going to wind up boring anyway?
I doubt they're boring. Then again, even Garak described them as boring and gray. I think they're generally repressed at the time being but have a rich heritage. I think the Communist China metaphor applies well here.

My personal notion of a perfect Romulan story is to see Unification... but not Romulan membership in the Federation. Take for that what you will. :shifty:
Wouldn't it be interesting to see the Vulcans leave the Federation to join the Romulan Empire, remake it, and reform it as the Vulcan Republic? ;)

My personal preference would have been for a Romulan/Cardassian alliance, that would have really pissed the Klingons off:devil:

Where do I sign? :rommie:
 
^ Alas my friend it could never be:(.If it were done,it was best done quickly or not at all.

Both Cardassia and Romulus have too much on their plates at the moment...:shifty:
 
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