If Enterprise was the first spinoff

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Enterprise' started by suarezguy, Aug 1, 2018.

  1. Dukhat

    Dukhat Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Again, you can't rationalize what ENT would be like if it was the first spinoff, because a prequel to TOS made in 1987 would be nothing like what we got in ENT. It wouldn't even be called "Enterprise;" it would probably be called "Before Star Trek" or something like that.

    Now, putting aside for the moment that in real life, there'd be no chance in hell that a prequel to TOS would have been made in 1987, or that it wouldn't be influenced by Roddenberry (because in 1987 it would have), how would a show about the Romulan War/founding of the Federation look like? I'd bet that it would look very much like Top Gun, which was all the rage in 1986. A bunch of macho space pilots flying space fighters and shooting at Romulan baddies. And at the time, it might even have been a success.
     
  2. HopefulRomantic

    HopefulRomantic Phloxist moderator Moderator

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    sekundant, you made my day. :mallory:
     
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  3. Tenacity

    Tenacity Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I disagree, the look and casting would definately be different, but general themes could have been present.

    First "real" starship, inexperienced crew, adversarial relationship with a species that had been acting as aguardian, rejection of the century old leash that that species had been keeping on Humanity.
     
  4. G. Curto

    G. Curto Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Here's the paradox: If Enterprise had been the first spin-off (1987) then it would have been different at its core. Bragga would not have been involved, but Gene Roddenberry would therefore it would have ended up looking very similar to TNG. The only real difference would lay in it's POV as a prequel rather than a sequel. To that end there would be no Worf or Data type characters. Diana Muldrew's Doctor would be far more fitting than McFadden's. Wesley may or may not still be included but, if he were he would definitely have to be an older.

    BTW, fun question, suarezguy. :bolian:
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2018 at 8:36 PM
  5. Dukhat

    Dukhat Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I’m pretty sure that a prequel to TOS made in 1987 would absolutely not have the theme of Vulcans as assholes holding humanity back.
     
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  6. Tenacity

    Tenacity Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Quester would still have existed as a pilot, so it would be easy to see a Data type included.
     
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  7. G. Curto

    G. Curto Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I did consider the Questor point regarding Data. I erred on the side of caution. In TOS the androids in "What Are Little Girls Made Of" and "I, Mudd" were unheard of, so how would they justify a more sophisticated creation 100 years prior to TOS and 185 years prior to TNG? Of course they could have. Roddenberry was big on recycling elements of his previous creations. The more I think of it, the more I think, Tenacity, you are right. There would have been a Data-ish character. Thank you.
     
  8. Phoenix219

    Phoenix219 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    A retcon where one of Roger Corby's ancestors (or Corby himself) was involved with Exo III in the past.... if Corby himself, then he became an android much earlier then anyone expected, or he was following in an ancestors path with his research on androids.... there could be classified information regarding one of his earlier experiments. The experiment possibly failed horribly, or was something UESPA never knew about.... plots regarding the android faking his humanity could have existed, or dealing with the fact that he knows he is a copy of a human, but is not really human.... lots of fun existential questions in this alt universe prequel. Maybe in this universe, Phase II diverted away from the TOS movies entirely, and this is the THIRD series... TOS in the 60s, Phase II in the late 70s, the un named (not Enterprise) prequel being the third.... ;)
     
  9. Tenacity

    Tenacity Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I didn't get the feeling they were "unheard of." When (I Mudd) Norman opened a access panel showing his insides, Kirk immediately said android and didn't seem mystified. And with Corby's androids, yes Christie seemed shocked that someone she knew had been replaced with a machine, but the mere existance of androids wasn't a big revealation.

    One of the original ideas for Data was that he wasn't created by Humans, instead a unknown alien species. So he could come from that, and it would be up to Humans to have created him.

    Maybe in a earlier ENT there could be a robot lifeform, and not go with android.
     
  10. G. Curto

    G. Curto Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I respectfully disagree. In both instances Kirk and company seemed to be a bit awestruck at first by the androids sophistication and refinement and ability to seamlessly blend in. Even in the era of TNG (set 85 years after TOS) Data was considered a marvel and unique. So again, going back 100 years before TOS an android on ship would be quite extraordinary. Definitely not a member of Starfleet. We are talking fiction so they could create a credible backstory not unlike that of Ruk's (Ted Cassidy) in "What Are …".
     
  11. Tenacity

    Tenacity Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    But wasn't Data unique because of his positronic brain, and not that he was a android?
     
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  12. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Vice Admiral Admiral

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    If Enterprise was the first spinoff people would have different expectations. I think people would be less receptive to something different at that point than they would have after three series in fourteen years. "Star Trek is about adventure and exploration and here we are milling about our home neighborhood!"

    And of course if it's still the franchise nadir of writing quality, and the main characters are still intellectually at odds with T'Pol telling humans they're not advanced enough to explore, I think people would have a major problem with that.
     
  13. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Vice Admiral Admiral

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    He's unique because of the implications of the positronic brain, that he's so close to human he can function as a human.
     
  14. Tenacity

    Tenacity Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I had a major problem with the Vulcans having that attitude.

    Loved it when Archer told T'Pol off, stood up to the Vulcan ambassador, thought there should of more of such confrontations. A strong Human captain, if anything Archer could have been stronger.

    Even the Vulcan space program had a beginning.
    As long as the planets and species are "somewheres" far and away, being a dozen or a hundred light years would be the same as thousands and thousands. Certainly for the general audience, which is the bulk of the audience.
     
  15. G. Curto

    G. Curto Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Exactly. An android circa 185 years before Data would be much cruder. Ruk couldn't do calculations. The I'Mudd androids were literal and could not handle the abstract. Severe limitations in the space exploration business. Data was the complete package. If not for Lore, Data could have been even more human. So again, an android 100 yeas before Ruk and the Normon series would definitely be lacking.

    We all agree, I believe, that Gene and his writers could overcome that hurdle which is why I did reverse my opinion, several posts back, on whether there could be a Data character.
     
  16. G. Curto

    G. Curto Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I would hope not. I always felt that if the producers of Enterprise (namely Bragga) had been more on the ball they would have elevated the Vulcans to be more like the elves in the Fellowship of the Rings. Tap into that elder coolness factor. I'm sure Roddenberry would not have deconstructed them as Berman/Bragga did.
     
  17. at Quark's

    at Quark's Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    If Enterprise had been the first spinoff, I think I would have seen even less use for the Klingon-forehead explaining episodes Affliction and Divergence :)
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2018 at 7:26 AM
  18. Tenacity

    Tenacity Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    If created by Humans, if along the Questor concept maybe not. Again one of the original concepts of Data was that he wasn't created by Humans.
    But likely Corby could.

    A 1987 Enterprise would lack the Andorian mobile antennas, beyond the tech of the day.

    The Andorians in ENT (to me) came off somewhat fascist, I wonder how depicting Shran (semi good guy) that way would play in the late eighties? The cold war was boiling pretty hard.
     
  19. G. Curto

    G. Curto Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I respectfully refer you to my answer from the previous post:
    "We all agree, I believe, that Gene and his writers could overcome that hurdle which is why I did reverse my opinion, several posts back, on whether there could be a Data character."

    Also, in the episode "What Are Little Girls Made Of" Corby could NOT do calculations. That was the dramatic moment when he realized he was a flawed copy and committed suicide.
     
  20. Tenacity

    Tenacity Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Corby was killed by Andrea.