If Data had lost the Measure of a Man trial, would he have fled?

[nnnnnnn]

Good points T'Girl.

The episode actually blurs two issue, biasing us in favor of Data.

The first issue is whether it would be ethical to destroy Data's personality (or risk destroying it) in order to build more Datas.

The second issue is whether the experiment would actually succeed.

It is clear that the answer to the second question is: "no". The scientist is not qualified to the experiment.

A much harder question would be if the answer were "yes". What if building an army of Datas would be possible by destroying Data's personality. What if, to make it harder, Starfleet knew the Borg were coming.

Now, we know the Enterprise officers are perfectly willing to sacrifice their lives to help fight the Borg. Why wouldn't Data, in this case?

I can understand that argument if Data had been built by Starfleet. But the fact he was built by an outside party, with no affiliation whatsoever to Starfleet, would seem to automatically preclude that.

Not necessarily, I own a cat who I paid nothing for, he is my property. I am legally responsible for him, and his actions.

Then corporations would be people.

The government views corporations as living things, already.

Not exactly, courts have ruled that corporations have rights and responsibilities similar to those of a natural person. But they can't legally do everything a natural person can, it doesn't go that far, they are a "legal person."

And maybe that's what was going on in the episode.

In the eyes of the Federation and Starfleet, Data might already not have been a "natural person," but he could have held the status of a "legal person." Section Fifteen of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms (that's Canada's equal rights guarantee) says it only applies to natural persons. It specifically uses that term.

So if Data already did not enjoy the full "Human" rights protections under the law that say Picard did. What Maddox would have accomplished though the courts, would have been to strip Data of the lesser protections of being a legal person.

As the JAG (semi) put it, Data would have had all the legal protections of a toaster.

 

[Mojochi]

Had Data lost the trial I suspect he would have had no choice within himself to do anything but submit to Maddox's procedures as Data's programming seems to rarely allow him to act outside of authority. The JAG office, Maddox and Starfleet would be the "authority" telling him he has no right to choose and Data likely would have agreed to that "law" being, well, law.

I find it more likely that all hell would have broken loose, & Picard would not have allowed them to essentially abduct his 2nd officer against his will, for life threatening experimentation, anymore than he was willing to hand over Wesley to the half naked people, & he would have had the support of his entire crew, & a good deal of the staff on that broken down starbase to aid him

Bang all the gavels you want, but nobody was forcing Data to give up his liberty

 

[T'Girl]

Picard would not have allowed them to essentially abduct his 2nd officer against his will ...

Should Data be legally deemed to be a "object," then the word would be confiscation, not abduct. Data would not have possessed a will to violate.

And how much ability (really) would Picard have had to "not allow" anything?

... anymore than he was willing to hand over Wesley to the half naked people ...

The difference there is Picard was not part of the society of the charming mud people, this is Picard's own civilization. In the end, Picard would have lost control of Data and his destiny. Other than resigning his commission in Starfleet, what were his options? Fire on the Starbase, threaten to do so? "Steal" Data away in the middle of the night? Call a press conference?

[Picard] would have had the support of his entire crew

Some? Many? Sure, but all? That's unlikely. Looking at modern day, officers come and go from ships and so do the crews. At the time of this episode, the Enterprise had only been in existence a year and a half. Simply because a officer is your superior in the ship's command structure, doesn't mean you are personal loyal to them. Or that you're going to put your career on the line for them. Data is their superior, beyond that he is the semi-anonymous second officer.

How many of the Enterprise's crew looked at Lt. Commander Data as merely an android?

And not a "person."

[and] a good deal of the staff on that broken down starbase to aid him

If the captain of the 6th fleet's flagship, Captain Ted Williams, tried to get the personnel of a US Navy base to "rise up," against a legal decision he personally didn't agree with, how many would support him? Or even know who he was?

Bang all the gavels you want, but nobody was forcing Data to give up his liberty

Data would not have given up his liberty, it would have been stripped from him.

")

 

[Mojochi]

Should Data be legally deemed to be a "object," then the word would be confiscation, not abduct.

They were ruling on whether he was property, which would objectify him, but nonetheless highlights a specific situation in which the term abducted can still apply. Slaves get abducted, not confiscated, the difference between being taken against will & being appropriated. It's really a matter of semantics as the enslaver might define it one way & the victim another.

Data would not have possessed a will to violate.

That the law refuses to recognize his will does not mean he hasn't one. Liberty is inalienable

The difference there is Picard was not part of the society of the charming mud people, this is Picard's own civilization.

Irrelevant. If anything, it should be more of an objection as this is a violation from the culture he serves & represents, which he considers to be moral.

In the end, Picard would have lost control of Data and his destiny. Other than resigning his commission in Starfleet, what were his options? Fire on the Starbase, threaten to do so? "Steal" Data away in the middle of the night? Call a press conference?

Any & all of the above, maybe, whatever it took. Kirk was told to not go to the Genesis planet. So what? One thing Kirk & Picard have in common... An immoral order is no order at all

Some? Many? Sure, but all? That's unlikely. Looking at modern day, officers come and go from ships and so do the crews. At the time of this episode, the Enterprise had only been in existence a year and a half. Simply because a officer is your superior in the ship's command structure, doesn't mean you are personal loyal to them. Or that you're going to put your career on the line for them. Data is their superior, beyond that he is the semi-anonymous second officer.

How many of the Enterprise's crew looked at Lt. Commander Data as merely an android?

And not a "person."

Ok, fine then. Maybe some, maybe many, maybe all, maybe not, but certainly.... enough

Data would not have given up his liberty, it would have been stripped from him.

One's liberty can only be lost when one chooses to let it, or when no one of good conscience stands in the way. I expect that neither of these conditions would have existed in this situation

 

[Nightdiamond]

Starfleet "owns" Data because a Starfleet crew found him?

I've always wondered why Starfleet believed Data was their property, without explaining or showing why they thought he was property.

All they did was focus on whether Data was sentient or not.

They gave more rights to 'sand' than they did to Data.

 

[Mojochi]

They gave more rights to 'sand' than they did to Data.

I guess the sand didn't have a lobbyist like Maddox working against it

It kind of makes me reflect on the later episode "The Drumhead" wherein we once again see how political maneuvering can still threaten the fabric of a society, even in their futuristic realm

 

[Anji]

Data would've never lost. Picard would've dated the judge and she would've reversed her ruling.

Hell, I would for one date with Patrick Stewart....