if Chakotay doesn't have a last name, when he gets married...
- Thread starter Guy Gardener
- Start date
Whoops - I just re-read my last paragraph and noticed a lapsus calami. I meant, in a hypothetical generational ship with more men than women (not less), technically, one would consider polyandry. 
Better see the Borg aspect of Seven's identity, of her name, as something inherited from the past, like a maiden name that goes away in marriage (unless one is being modern about it and, sorry Iguana, but a lot of non-anglo-saxon wives still take on their husband's name for tradition or love - not that it's wise, considering the divorce statistics). Using a Borg system like that in her new family would be carrying her past a little too far for Seven. She has gradually grown away from it and started resenting borg-ness.
That's creative of you Guy, but Chakotay wouldn't stand for it anyway.
Better see the Borg aspect of Seven's identity, of her name, as something inherited from the past, like a maiden name that goes away in marriage (unless one is being modern about it and, sorry Iguana, but a lot of non-anglo-saxon wives still take on their husband's name for tradition or love - not that it's wise, considering the divorce statistics). Using a Borg system like that in her new family would be carrying her past a little too far for Seven. She has gradually grown away from it and started resenting borg-ness.
Last edited:
I was going to chime in and say that I know lots of people don't exchange their names at all, but I see that's already been said. But I'd say that if Chkotay doesn't have a last name (which I have no clue about) that he might have taken his bride's last name, had she not been Seven of Nine. Her name is complicated too, and since everyone on board would know them already, and accept them as a couple (as disturbing as that seems to me) - I don't think there would be any exchange of names, simply because of the circumstances.
The Queen (Chakotay's Motherinlaw.) refered ato the Borg at least nce because of some extremely clucky writer as "My Children" and albeit briefly, the Indian has been part of the Borg, well part of two different Borg Collectives in his time which would eother quallify him as Seven's brother under "Borg Law" or become suddenly the same person that their relation would be some sort of out of body attempt at masturbation.
Remember, after modern is post modern and after that is super post modern, so goodness knows how "super" postmodern Voyagers ethos is when half the time their moral core is entirely questionable...
Like either of them would agree to "Obey" the other one if a western marriage ceremony was to take place, which we has seen once or twice. What were the words used in other ceremonies we have seen?
Remember, after modern is post modern and after that is super post modern, so goodness knows how "super" postmodern Voyagers ethos is when half the time their moral core is entirely questionable...
Like either of them would agree to "Obey" the other one if a western marriage ceremony was to take place, which we has seen once or twice. What were the words used in other ceremonies we have seen?
She could insist that his name is representative of his position like in her culture that his name would be Lieutenant Commander Chakotay Lieutenant Commander.
After a little Google search, I can confirm that the name "Chakotay" doesn't mean anything at all. It's a made up name.
They should have called him something like Chaytan, at least that has a meaning : it's Sioux for "hawk".
BTW, I love native Americans and their history, which is full of spirituality.
I admit their popularity in Europe might have something to do with the Karl May stories though (although May has never set a foot upon American soil), his character Winnetou (a fictional Apache-chieftain) was so popular they made several movies about him, in which Lex Barker played his white bloodbrother Old Shatterhand.
But I'm drifting here..
They should have called him something like Chaytan, at least that has a meaning : it's Sioux for "hawk".
BTW, I love native Americans and their history, which is full of spirituality.
I admit their popularity in Europe might have something to do with the Karl May stories though (although May has never set a foot upon American soil), his character Winnetou (a fictional Apache-chieftain) was so popular they made several movies about him, in which Lex Barker played his white bloodbrother Old Shatterhand.
But I'm drifting here..
Why would they give him a Lakota name when he wasn't Lakota?
The funny thing is, Chak is the Mayan thunder god. And Teya (or Taya)--which Chakotay said was the feminine of Chakotay--is a Mayan name.
And Beltran suggested making Chakotay Mayan. TPTB threw a little Maya into Tribe Hollywood, but they truly should have gone all the way.
Although the naming conventions would be confusing...
You're perpetuating a stereotype. American Indians are no more "spiritual" than any other group. You may find different tribal religious traditions exotic, but there's nothing more inherently spiritual in our religious traditions than yours.
And most of us are Christian--or at the very least, practice a faith that blends both Christianity and pagan tradition.
BTW, we are 500 nations strong. We are probably less homogenous than Europe.
Because he wasn't Lakota.
And? What was your point?
Why not?
I thought it was a terrific idea. First, the Mayans were astronomers extraordinaire. And second, there's a huge Mayan population in Southern California and a revivalist movement among 2nd, 3rd, and so on generation. It ties into Chakotay's back story nicely--the folks more likely to have left earth would be highly educated, not simple farmers.
So why don't you think Mayan was a good suggestion?
And, yanno, if you'd said "I love the Haudenosanee and their history..." I'd have been pleasantly surprised.
But you didn't. You lumped us into one big amorphous mass, which actually negates our religious traditions and history.
And, well, yanno, our history isn't exactly all sweetness and light.
Frankly, I like the syncretism, myself.
^ 
I give up. Jeez!
I give up. Jeez!
^
Why?
I've asked you questions. I've given my perspective--as an American Indian.
Why don't you want a conversation?
Why not tell me why you think Chakotay shouldn't have been a Maya? Why not say what tribe you would have liked to see him be and why?
Look, if you prefer to continue with a lovely romanticized view of who we are and what we believe, just say so. I'll leave you alone.
But I will strongly disagree.
I do have that right, yanno.
^ I think there's some confusion over the mutliple meanings of the word "yanno":
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Yanno
I'm pretty sure teya meant definition #1 but perhaps it's best to avoid using this term just so there aren't any understandings.
kimc, who has just learned something new today.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Yanno
I'm pretty sure teya meant definition #1 but perhaps it's best to avoid using this term just so there aren't any understandings.
kimc, who has just learned something new today.
According to Beltran, Chakotay's first name is Fred. I'ld keep that a secret too if I were him.
(looks around for people named Fred who will be insulted)
(looks around for people named Fred who will be insulted)
@Captain Gandalf - I enjoy your posts immensely and the way you express yourself is fantastic.
@Taya - it seems to me like you're constantly looking for a fight or maybe rather that you expect to be insulted/hurt by almost everybody, and so you're so up in arms that you end up reading insult where there is none - hell might even be a compliment as was the case with Captain Gandalf's statement about being spiritual. At least that how I read the tone many of your posts carry. I see a fight, not an interesting debate. Just my opinion. You accuse people of making assumptions, but you tend to do this a lot yourself. Oh well, moving on. You and I really have very little to talk about.
GASP! I've been growled at! Aye Sir or is it Ma'am?
Point taken... Keepnig on track then...
Seven of nine and Chakotay married, it would be and SHOULD be Seven Chakotay..
(per traditions of marriage the spouse takes the last name of the groom)
I really can't see, as an amateur writer, Chakotay getting married... lthough its a pretty good concept. A BIT far fetched.
Here would be another good concept.
if Seven and Chaotay ever had Kids (if it was possible)
What on Earth would you call them? One Chakotay and Two Chakotay???
Last edited:
There were 152 crew near the end.
Lets assume that 148 through 152 were the equinox 5 and the the Borg Kids don't count. Which would make Anika's Borg designation aboard Voyager something close to 147 of 147 when she first arrived, and in the final days 147 of 152. Chuckles was of course always 2 of 152(Or what ever the crew manifest said was able bodied and breathing at the time.) except while he was on vacation with Kathy when Tom was 2 of 140-something.
So if she was to take his Borg name, then she would be One of (2 of 152).
Of course her most official posting was Stellametrics. Which makes her One of Two Stellametrics, unless Kim want's to say that he is One of Two Stellametrics and not she? Although water finds it's own level.
Lets assume that 148 through 152 were the equinox 5 and the the Borg Kids don't count. Which would make Anika's Borg designation aboard Voyager something close to 147 of 147 when she first arrived, and in the final days 147 of 152. Chuckles was of course always 2 of 152(Or what ever the crew manifest said was able bodied and breathing at the time.) except while he was on vacation with Kathy when Tom was 2 of 140-something.
So if she was to take his Borg name, then she would be One of (2 of 152).
Of course her most official posting was Stellametrics. Which makes her One of Two Stellametrics, unless Kim want's to say that he is One of Two Stellametrics and not she? Although water finds it's own level.
kimc;2736831 I'm pretty sure [B said:
Maybe so, but that's not what I'm sensing here. Since English is not my native language, it's not always easy to express myself the way I want to;
there are still words I have to look up because I haven't encountered them before. For someone who was raised in English, my choice of words could be seen as simplistic (see definition #3), but it should not be the reason for making insults (if that was the case).
According to Beltran, Chakotay's first name is Fred. I'ld keep that a secret too if I were him.
@Captain Gandalf - I enjoy your posts immensely and the way you express yourself is fantastic.
Thanks Gorf. I enjoy your posts too, especially in the TrekLit forum. As to expressing myself, like I said, it's harder for me than you think.
That's exactly what I'm thinking, and that's the reason I won't be responding to her posts anymore. I came to this forum to enjoy myself, maybe even to make some good friends down the line, but not to fight pointless battles.
So anyone know what Seven's real name was BEFORE she was assimilated by the BORG?
Chakotay's name is FRED? omg...
Mr and Mrs Fred and Seven Chakotay? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
That is REALLY REALLY uh... GAY!
I would think Chakotay would have a cooler Native American name than just FRED...
EGAD ..
Nathaniel
Last edited:
