If Caretaker hadn't died, how long'd Janeway have badgered Banjoman?

[Guy Gardener]

Neelix said that it was a sad story which he had many times before that Caretaker was not all that interested in sending back any of his lovers to their home spaces... But surely if the old coot was within years of dying instead of hours when Janeway met up with the panspacialrapist, how long would Voyager have pestered and spammed his Arrary until he gave in and sent them home/killed them, or she gave in and had to trek back the long way like we saw anyway?

Months? Years?

Consider? Ransom gave in waiting for Caretaker to listen to his begging for a starhyke and charted a route home himself, but did he wait weeks or hours before he thought that the caretaker was too mean tempered to test since that starshipo Captain was a little less confrontational than kathy.

 

[Finn]

Re: If Caretaker hadn't died, how long'd Janeway have badgered Banjoma

If Caretaker hadn't died, he would had sent Voyager home like he did with the other ships (besides Chakotay's ship and the Equinox). See VOY's The Conspiracy Theory.

 

[Ensign Johnson]

Re: If Caretaker hadn't died, how long'd Janeway have badgered Banjoma

I'm not convinced Janeway really wanted to get home, I think she liked the idea of being in another quadrant from Starfleet.

 

[JanewayRulz!]

Re: If Caretaker hadn't died, how long'd Janeway have badgered Banjoma

She'd have stayed until he sent them back or swatted them from the sky.

 

[kimc]

Re: If Caretaker hadn't died, how long'd Janeway have badgered Banjoma

I'm not convinced Janeway really wanted to get home, I think she liked the idea of being in another quadrant from Starfleet.

I don't think so. It was made quite clear that she had a lot to get back to - her fiancee, her dog, etc.

 

[Praxius]

Re: If Caretaker hadn't died, how long'd Janeway have badgered Banjoma

What I never got was that he kept saying "There's no time.... There's no time...."

If he stopped moaning and complaining about there being no time, he probably could have sent them off long ago and then we'd never have a series to watch.

Also he claimed it was a complicated matter to send them back home..... yet Tuvok walked over with his trusty Tricorder, did a little scan and then said it'd only take a couple of hours to set it up to go back home.

Which begs the question: WTF Dude?

Why didn't they just wait until he died, set the thing up, disable the Kazon ships, set it to send them back home and after they left, have a bomb detonate a few seconds later?

It seemed a couple of those quantum torpedoes did a fine job blowing the snot out of the array..... they could have easily rigged two of them on the array and then bam..... the end..... Janeway got her crew back home, she captured Chakotay and his crew and charted a bit of the Delta Quadrant, all the while covering Prime Directive requirements of not letting the array fall into the Kazon's hands.......

"You made an enemy today...."

Whoopty do if we did, we're back in the Alpha Quadrant and you're still fighting over water you dumb wankers.

 

[vas2009]

Re: If Caretaker hadn't died, how long'd Janeway have badgered Banjoma

^^^^

Janeway would have pulled out her diplomatic skilz and charmed the old bastard. Good thing he waisted so much time bitching (typical man ).

 

[Ensign Johnson]

Re: If Caretaker hadn't died, how long'd Janeway have badgered Banjoma

I'm not convinced Janeway really wanted to get home, I think she liked the idea of being in another quadrant from Starfleet.

I don't think so. It was made quite clear that she had a lot to get back to - her fiancee, her dog, etc.

I was mostly only joking. But seriously it did sometimes seem like she was avoiding getting home (obviously they couldn't get home because that would end the series). Being the captain of a ship that far from home would have its advantages though, she was more like the queen of Voyager than the captain.

 

[vas2009]

Re: If Caretaker hadn't died, how long'd Janeway have badgered Banjoma

I'm not convinced Janeway really wanted to get home, I think she liked the idea of being in another quadrant from Starfleet.

I don't think so. It was made quite clear that she had a lot to get back to - her fiancee, her dog, etc.

I was mostly only joking. But seriously it did sometimes seem like she was avoiding getting home (obviously they couldn't get home because that would end the series). Being the captain of a ship that far from home would have its advantages though, she was more like the queen of Voyager than the captain.

"Remember you're the Queen!" ~Tom Paris to Cpt. Janeway

 

[Guy Gardener]

Re: If Caretaker hadn't died, how long'd Janeway have badgered Banjoma

What I never got was that he kept saying "There's no time.... There's no time...."

If he stopped moaning and complaining about there being no time, he probably could have sent them off long ago and then we'd never have a series to watch.

Also he claimed it was a complicated matter to send them back home..... yet Tuvok walked over with his trusty Tricorder, did a little scan and then said it'd only take a couple of hours to set it up to go back home.

Which begs the question: WTF Dude?

Why didn't they just wait until he died, set the thing up, disable the Kazon ships, set it to send them back home and after they left, have a bomb detonate a few seconds later?

It seemed a couple of those quantum torpedoes did a fine job blowing the snot out of the array..... they could have easily rigged two of them on the array and then bam..... the end..... Janeway got her crew back home, she captured Chakotay and his crew and charted a bit of the Delta Quadrant, all the while covering Prime Directive requirements of not letting the array fall into the Kazon's hands.......

"You made an enemy today...."

Whoopty do if we did, we're back in the Alpha Quadrant and you're still fighting over water you dumb wankers.

1. There was no time. He died. He was probably trying not to die every second he knew Kathryn Janeway.

2. It's possible Caretaker is a moron or not an engineer. The rest of the Nacene had to decide who to leave behind to look after the Ocampa. they either chose the person with the least skills to present to their remaining mission or otherwise the spud with the lowest IQ or possibly the most annoying fuck on the ship. It's altogether possible Caretaker's first job title before he was given the Ocampa to Shepherd was "janitor" or "councillor" or "convict". Even if he was the best of the best, Caretaker was clearly mentally undone by some form of advanced age near death related dementia.

3. They were only using Photon Torpedos in the "battle" which didn't do much against the array or the Kazon. the Kazon city ship was damaged/destroyed by colliding with the val jean and the Array was destroyed by a tricobalt device a weapon not ever seen since Kirk's era. The threat was minimal. but Voyager wa probably operating at teen percent of peek from being so frakked by the Voyager there... but it was always a question of reinforcements. What would Janeway have done if a hundred more kazon ships showed up over the next few hours? She was fighting an empire (supposedly) not a pack of space bums (supposedly) so the lady couldn't preach from onhigh given that she had no idea the tread of the playing field.

4. A timer of any sort, even the doctor couldn't be trusted to work in their absence especially if their was no conformation that that array was destroyed once they arrived in the AQ which even rules out leaving a person with a deadmans switch.

5. The Prime Directive insisted that the kazon acquire the Array as salvage since this was their space, and that they kill and eat the Ocampa (and steal "their" water) if they felt like it as they would should with any other subservient cow slave race under their heel. janeway broke the law and should have been tossed in the brig for shitting on the federations ideals since she dragged the Federation in all out war with the mighty kazon by interfering where she was not invited.

6. if the Array ha fallen into kazon hands, two things might have happened. first that they might have evolved a little apace with their new technology. Second they would have fumbled the technology and fallen prey to a smarter species (liek the Ocampa) who were prepared to use Caretakers technology to it's fullest.

Blah blah.

Crikey I go on.

 

[Praxius]

Re: If Caretaker hadn't died, how long'd Janeway have badgered Banjoma

1. There was no time. He died. He was probably trying not to die every second he knew Kathryn Janeway.

Of course there was plenty of time.... Tuvok knew exactly how to do it by rigging up the array, with or without the old coot.... he just kept delaying them because he was so busy trying to send energy to the Ocompa due to his guilt, he couldn't be bothered to do anything else.

2. It's possible Caretaker is a moron or not an engineer. The rest of the Nacene had to decide who to leave behind to look after the Ocampa. they either chose the person with the least skills to present to their remaining mission or otherwise the spud with the lowest IQ or possibly the most annoying fuck on the ship. It's altogether possible Caretaker's first job title before he was given the Ocampa to Shepherd was "janitor" or "councillor" or "convict". Even if he was the best of the best, Caretaker was clearly mentally undone by some form of advanced age near death related dementia.

I think his undone mentality existed long before his old age set in, since he decided to stay there and protect them ever since the incident occurred that drove them underground.

And there was only two of them sent out to explore this area of the galaxy, they explain this and both of their objectives very well.

3. They were only using Photon Torpedos in the "battle" which didn't do much against the array or the Kazon. the Kazon city ship was damaged/destroyed by colliding with the val jean and the Array was destroyed by a tricobalt device a weapon not ever seen since Kirk's era. The threat was minimal. but Voyager wa probably operating at teen percent of peek from being so frakked by the Voyager there... but it was always a question of reinforcements. What would Janeway have done if a hundred more kazon ships showed up over the next few hours? She was fighting an empire (supposedly) not a pack of space bums (supposedly) so the lady couldn't preach from onhigh given that she had no idea the tread of the playing field.

I remember her saying "Tricobalt" or whatever it was called..... but they shot out of the ship sounding and looking very much like Quantum Torpedoes... they did as much damage as Q.Torpedoes from what I seen through DS9 and First Contact and while P.torpedoes were used in the battle, if those torpedoes worked so well on the Array, why didn't they make more of them to blow the Kazon out of the stars?

It sure didn't seem to take long to rig a couple.

4. A timer of any sort, even the doctor couldn't be trusted to work in their absence especially if their was no conformation that that array was destroyed once they arrived in the AQ which even rules out leaving a person with a deadmans switch.

5. The Prime Directive insisted that the kazon acquire the Array as salvage since this was their space, and that they kill and eat the Ocampa (and steal "their" water) if they felt like it as they would should with any other subservient cow slave race under their heel. janeway broke the law and should have been tossed in the brig for shitting on the federations ideals since she dragged the Federation in all out war with the mighty kazon by interfering where she was not invited.

Agreed.... just because the Caretaker dragged them into this mess, it wasn't their mess to clean up.... at least if they rigged a bomb that might have been disabled, they would have tried.... if it failed, it was none of their concern.

6. if the Array ha fallen into kazon hands, two things might have happened. first that they might have evolved a little apace with their new technology. Second they would have fumbled the technology and fallen prey to a smarter species (liek the Ocampa) who were prepared to use Caretakers technology to it's fullest.

Blah blah.

Crikey I go on.

Indeed.... you do realize my post was more of a joke then to be actually serious?

 

[Guy Gardener]

Re: If Caretaker hadn't died, how long'd Janeway have badgered Banjoma

You do realise I am a joke more than serious?

All these "answers" are basically macros on my keyboard.

 

[Praxius]

Re: If Caretaker hadn't died, how long'd Janeway have badgered Banjoma

no worries.... :P

But something else just popped into my head in relation to the first episode.

I understand they had to encounter the Kazon on the planet due to trying to find Kim and Tores, but how come the Kazon didn't bother going after the Array until Voyager really needed it?

Sounds like it was there for quite a while and only when the crew made their way back and had a sure-fire way of getting back home by waiting until after the Caretaker died, did the Kazon conveniently show up to screw everything up.

If they showed up because they knew he was dying and wouldn't wipe them out.... how did they know he was dying? Who told them?

I did just see the episode a couple of days ago but can't remember this part and Memory Alpha doesn't explain this part.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Re: If Caretaker hadn't died, how long'd Janeway have badgered Banjoma

Cormaline.

The Kazon had a mine, a refinery and a shop. Everyone in that sector bought Cormaline off the kazon. The entire DQ were complicit in the kazon occupation of that barren world and it's surrounding space.

Caretaker had been looking after the Ocampa for almost a thousand years (Over 500 generations the ocampans claimed in the episode which the encyclopedia extrapolated into being about a thousand Terran years.), but the kazon occupation of the Surface must have been en force for some years to have a client base and good word of mouth from their services, on top of their industrial infrastructure.

The energy stream from the array to the Ocampan subterranean city had been steadily increasing in speed, in so that the Ocampa had been awarded an unusual surplus of 5 years worth of power, which was unusual behaviour for the array which the kazon commented on during their logjamming to Janeway.

The Caretaker had a self destruct device which was accidentally disabled during the final battle when one of the Kazon ships collided with the Array. If Janeway hadn't been there to create those particular events then the Caretaker would have been able to destroy the Array himself without asking for Janeways help to be the Ocampas new Caretaker, unless the kazon were super clever and sneaky about their seizure of the array.

 

[Finn]

Re: If Caretaker hadn't died, how long'd Janeway have badgered Banjoma

Okay, now I know you aren't serious. The Kazon barely occupies a fraction of the DQ.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Re: If Caretaker hadn't died, how long'd Janeway have badgered Banjoma

That's the part you feel debateable? It took Janeway 2 years to escape the reach of the kazon Nistrim, and that wasn't taking into account the 16 to 20 other sects running around playing grownup who would have been contented to take a stab at Janeway.

It's a decent chunk.

Several hundred square light years.

 

[Finn]

Re: If Caretaker hadn't died, how long'd Janeway have badgered Banjoma



let's have fun

50K*50K*2K=5 trillion cubic light years

since the galaxy isn't a square, let's say it's 60% of that.

So that makes 3 trillion cubic light years. For the Kazon space to make even one percent, it would have to Be really really really massive, well beyond taking a two year journey through it.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Re: If Caretaker hadn't died, how long'd Janeway have badgered Banjoma

A decent chuck of the actual dq, not really, but a decent chunk of the DQ which Voyager explored yes, and A huge empire at that, only second to the Borg who supposedly was going to take a decade to bisect.

How much of that 3 trillion cubic light years is uninhabitable lacking any M Class planets? Most of it, right? And that is exactly the space the kazon goes after, uncontested territory no other bugger wants, and considering that almost every other empire Voyager bothered could be pushed past in a week or two, is it any coincidence that with the kazon being Borg Proof that they are one of the few Empires out their that it takes a few years to trek through?

The smallness of their nieghbours in the first two seasons might have been a testiment to how enormously they overlooked on how huge kazon space was as they gobbled up all the spaces inbetween the really valuable realestate.

 

[Finn]

Re: If Caretaker hadn't died, how long'd Janeway have badgered Banjoma

Ohhh....

Oh, right, and matter is mostly space, all that space between the electrons and the protons and neurons. So Kazon don't control shit.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Re: If Caretaker hadn't died, how long'd Janeway have badgered Banjoma

I suspect that there is a sect completely devoted to the control of shit.

They were barbarians raised up as slaves by a morally deficient species who after a term of service chucked their chains and kicked the shit out of their overmasters assimilating their empire merely half a century ago.

Like America did to the English somewhat.

They're on the way up and they're not too dignified to take any advantage to lap the competition as quickly and often as possible.