If Buffy the Vampire Slayer is rebooted and Willow is in the series, should she Dark Willow again at some point?

[Guy Gardener]

I was wracking my brain struggling to remember when we saw Dark Tara I could not remember her at all. That would explain why.

In Tara's Family, the very intelligent patriarchy "lie" to all their women, claiming that they are vile Demons, who have to be controlled and held down, lest they go insane and destroy the world.

Tara believed that she was Dark Tara all along, until the Scoobies convinced her, that all that was bullshit.

 

[DonIago]

The whole point of my suggestion of Dark Tara was that if they're going to do a reboot, they should shake things up a bit, and having it be Tara to go evil rather than Willow would be one significant way of doing so.

 

[Guy Gardener]

The whole point of my suggestion of Dark Tara was that if they're going to do a reboot, they should shake things up a bit, and having it be Tara to go evil rather than Willow would be one significant way of doing so.

But Tara is not Willow's equal and Opposite.

Xander is.

Although his soulmate died in the final episode, and all Nikki did was trash a few hotel rooms at Comicon.

 

[theenglish]

Dark Willow, I always felt she was an unnecessary and tack-on bad just to end the season with something mystically powerful. She was evil for a thankfully short period of time. It didn't help that I missed the episode where she turned bad and only saw it in the "previously on" section at the start of the next episode.

 

[Jayson1]

I don't see the point of rebooting the show if Joss Whedon isn't making it and since that likely won't happen then they should let the franchise retire. Same issue if they want to bring back Firefly.

 

[DonIago]

On the other hand, given what we've learned about Joss Whedon, I wouldn't really want to watch any show he was making at this point.

 

[UssGlenn]

Same issue if they want to bring back Firefly.

They should make a sequel series to Firefly. Have the same time pass in universe as the real world, and have all new characters, but they are flying Serenity. We don't find out the circumstances of the ship changing hands for a while. That would let the original characters make guest appearances.

 

[JD]

JD the dog in your photo is cute. Do you own a dog?

That's my family's dog Gracie.

 

[Jayson1]

Problem is these shows were so connected Joss Whedon's talent and vision. He had good writers but he was the guy in charge of it all. This isn't also a Gene Roddenberry case where he did have vision but frankly Roddenberry was not a great writer. To me it would be like bringing back West Wing without Aaron Sorkin or Breaking Bad without Vince Gilligan.

 

[JD]

I'm think other people were running Buffy after the first few seasons, so it wasn't all coming from Whedon.

 

[Jayson1]

Other people were involved but I think he ran the show the entire time. I know he did sort of let go of some control in season 6 because he was busy spending most of the early part of that season writing the The Musical episode. I do think he was little more hands of on the later seasons of Angel. I know David Greenwalt was like the showrunner for most of the run and also Tim Minear and Jeffrey Bell also had lots of control as well.

 

[theenglish]

If the show were to be updated, I would not want to see a rehash of the same plots. What I would want to see are the qualties that made the show what it was:

Character driven stories and arcs,
Actors who are relatively normal looking teens,
an ensemble cast with great chemistry,
Snappy humor and witty banter using dialogue rooted in the current day,
Campy and light-hearted humor that still allows the characters and plots to be taken seriously,
Metaphors for contemporary high school life,
Themes of female empowerment,
Individual stories within episodes that support a season long arc,
Buffy needs to have the same personality as the series and the movie,
World building that uses the main foundations of the Buffy world but adds its own unique elements.

I'm sure there are many more that I could think of.

 

[JD]

Any of you guys read Boom! Studios reboot comics? Those give a pretty good idea of what a reboot could be like. I read the first collection and it was pretty good. I don't remember it real well, but I do remember that the first Big Bad is Drusilla who is no involved with Spike. And from the solicitations they actually ended up turning Xander into a bad guy for a while, but I'm not sure if it was permanent or he turned good again by the end.

Other people were involved but I think he ran the show the entire time. I know he did sort of let go of some control in season 6 because he was busy spending most of the early part of that season writing the The Musical episode. I do think he was little more hands of on the later seasons of Angel. I know David Greenwalt was like the showrunner for most of the run and also Tim Minear and Jeffrey Bell also had lots of control as well.

I could have sworn I read somewhere that Jane Espenson was showrunner for the last few seasons.

 

[Jayson1]

Not sure about the Jane Espenson thing but I think it can't be ignored those were the worst years of the show. While season 4 was a little off at times I think most would agree that season 1 to 5 was the show at it's best. Of course it also can't be ignored that "Once More With Feeling" which is the shows ll-time best episode was also very heavily written by Whedon.

I mean it just can't be denied. Whatever personality issues he has a person one can't deny his brilliant writing talent. He was probably one of the most influential writers of his time. I get the feeling that all young up and coming artist all wanted to be either Whedon. Aaron Sorkin. Tarantino or Kevin Smith and maybe a few also wanted to also be the next Speilberg or Scorsese or Edgar Wright. Maybe a few also wanted to next Spike Lee,Linklater and those types who use to want to be the next Woody Allen now want to be the next Noah Baumbach, Wes Anderson or Greta Gerwig.

 

[DonIago]

I think you should reconsider your decision to describe Whedon's alleged conduct toward his coworkers as 'personality issues'.

 

[Jayson1]

From what I understand he was often hostile and basically could be mean. Like making one of the writers cry and thinking it was funny. Basically a bully of sorts. That seems to fit under the guise of a, personality issue. He created a hostile and uncomfortable work environment, especially to people who pissed him off like Charisma Carpenter.

 

[theenglish]

There were other, more predatory and misogynistic behaviours hinted, but I cannot remember the details about which one were corroborated or not. But, from what we do know, even though the guy, he's a pretty bad human being--and if the allegations are true, he basically becomes the villain in his own story. Despite Buffy being a pro-feminism show, many of the women who worked on it reported some disturbing experiences.

 

[DonIago]

There were other, more predatory and misogynistic behaviours hinted, but I cannot remember the details about which one were corroborated or not. But, from what we do know, even though the guy, he's a pretty bad human being--and if the allegations are true, he basically becomes the villain in his own story. Despite Buffy being a pro-feminism show, many of the women who worked on it reported some disturbing experiences.

It adds some disturbing subtext to some of the events of Buffy and Angel for sure, though difficult to say whether that subtext is a result of Whedon's problems or just an unpleasant coincidence.

 

[theenglish]

It adds some disturbing subtext to some of the events of Buffy and Angel for sure, though difficult to say whether that subtext is a result of Whedon's problems or just an unpleasant coincidence.

Well, I do remember that he sidelined Carpenter in Season 4 because she was pregnant which may have been fair if she were having complications; but then turned around and fired her before Season 5 started.

 

[DonIago]

Well, I do remember that he sidelined Carpenter in Season 4 because she was pregnant which may have been fair if she were having complications; but then turned around and fired her before Season 5 started.

That's talked about a bit (along with the other situations) in his Wikipedia article. Everything that happened with Cordy later in the series...it wasn't 'out of nowhere', but it felt a bit like the series was going in kind of a weird direction, even if the writing generally held up. I should see whether there's any pertinent discussion on any commentary tracks. Not of Whedon's conduct specfically, but just whatever was going on BTS during all that.