Idea for Suburban Solar power.

[Meredith]

Ok, Solar Power is a big pain in the butt to setup in your house because the Costs associted with all the extra equipment. Besides the Solar Panels you also have to buy a DC to AC inverter which are somewhat inefficient. You also may need to buy batteries, big leaky thinks filled with lead and acid, YUCK! I have an Idea to make Solar energy more palatable to the end consumer.


Have the power companies run an extra electric line to people's houses. This line will be a DC only like and will be set at a standard Voltage range. This line will be the "Renewable enegry feedback line.".

These lines run back to a central box that can serve all the houses in the subdivision/block.

The box is one of those ubliqutous grey boxes that you sometimes on the street corners that is where the DC to AC inverter is situated and monitors that keep track how much power it is getting from each house and how much credit each person gets from it. The Larger Inverter would be a heck of a lot more efficient than having multiple inverters in everyone's home and would be safer as well. The Inverter would feed back the grid at that point making it safer for electrical line men so they could turn it off and not have to worry about feedback on lines when fixing downed lines.

Thus this would save more energy as it would be more efficient, safer and more robust. No batteries would be needed either as you feed the grid from both ends so to speak and you wouldn't have to convert houses to all DC power either.

It would save the indiviual money as it would cost them less per house to setup Solar power.

All the consumer would need is the panels themselves or the power company could install them on your house and handle everything making it hassle free for the casual homeowner who wants solar, but doesn't want to fiddle around with it. The power company wouldn't need to go in your house to even replace the solar panels.

Win-win.

 

[farmkid]

It sounds like a good idea to me. However, I think it is more likely to happen if it is something that is setup by a developer when the neighborhood is built. For the power company to do it in an existing neighborhood, they would have to get several homes to buy into the idea and secure a location for the central building before being able to even start the project. If I were looking to buy a house in a new subdivision, something like this would definitely be a check in the plus column. I probably wouldn't go try to convert my neighbors to the idea to get it installed in already-existing homes.

 

[Meredith]

farmkid said:
It sounds like a good idea to me. However, I think it is more likely to happen if it is something that is setup by a developer when the neighborhood is built. For the power company to do it in an existing neighborhood, they would have to get several homes to buy into the idea and secure a location for the central building before being able to even start the project. If I were looking to buy a house in a new subdivision, something like this would definitely be a check in the plus column. I probably wouldn't go try to convert my neighbors to the idea to get it installed in already-existing homes.

The utility company could roll this out for new homes at first and then slowly begin to adapt the existing neighborhoods. Have something like you can sign up for it and then when 30% of your neighborhood wants it they then put in the infrastructure.

I like the idea of only having soalr panels on my roof and none of the other gear in my house. The DC/AC converter shouldn't take up much space, abotu the sive of a small car or 1/2 of that for a block or two of homes.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

I know a guy who has something like this. The way he explained it, his solar panels send the power they generate to PG&E, and they discount his bill every month accordingly.

As a result, his electricity bills are usually lower than $5 or so per month, and PG&E redistributes the power he generates.

 

[Bill Morris]

This sounds to me like an excellent idea that should go beyond this forum and be widely considered.

 

[SamuraiBlue]

In principle that is how it is done in Japan.
The electric company deducts any and all surplus electricty generated from the solar panels that was not used and draws it into the grid.
The difference is that the owner pays for installment of the AC/DC converters and switching regulators that also records how much electricty was generated and how much was sent in/out of the grid.
Major companies that generates vast amount of heat also sells electricty to the electric company like steel mills and/or glass glazing factories by installing heat collectors with generators.

 

[JustAFriend]

Pumping DC over ANY distance is highly inefficient. That's why Edison's DC transmission lost out to Tesla's (ok, Westinghouse's) AC system.

You can already pump AC back into the grid with standard equipment.

...the basic problem is that solar is inefficient and DIRTY (the chemicals and materials used to make solar panels is nasty, not to mention the big submarine-style batteries you'd need for a reasonable home setup without living like you're in the 1920s....) Plus the vast majority of homes will be in areas that are not efficient for solar collection due to weather or orientation.

The surface of the Earth is not the place to put solar panels. Put them closer to the Sun and beam the power back.

 

[SamuraiBlue]

JustAFriend said:
Pumping DC over ANY distance is highly inefficient. That's why Edison's DC transmission lost out to Tesla's (ok, Westinghouse's) AC system.

You can already pump AC back into the grid with standard equipment.

...the basic problem is that solar is inefficient and DIRTY (the chemicals and materials used to make solar panels is nasty, not to mention the big submarine-style batteries you'd need for a reasonable home setup without living like you're in the 1920s....) Plus the vast majority of homes will be in areas that are not efficient for solar collection due to weather or orientation.

To my knowledge high power lines are DC since capacitance occurs between ground and power lines with AC.

If you feed back surplus electricty generated through solar panels then you wouldn't need any batteries making it more eco-friendly. For shortage simply draw electricty from the grid.

 

[JustAFriend]

Nope, high power lines are 3-phase AC at 110kv or above.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_power_transmission

Transmitting DC over more than .5-1mile or so is very difficult.

 

[SamuraiBlue]

I don't think so.

HVDC

Main article: High-voltage direct current

High voltage direct current (HVDC) is used to transmit large amounts of power over long distances or for interconnections between asynchronous grids. When electrical energy is required to be transmitted over very long distances, it can be more economical to transmit using direct current instead of alternating current. For a long transmission line, the value of the smaller losses, and reduced construction cost of a DC line, can offset the additional cost of converter stations at each end of the line. Also, at high AC voltages significant (although economically acceptable) amounts of energy are lost due to corona discharge, the capacitance between phases or, in the case of buried cables, between phases and the soil or water in which the cable is buried.

HVDC links are sometimes used to stabilize against control problems with the AC electricity flow. In other words, to transmit AC power as AC when needed in either direction between Seattle and Boston would require the (highly challenging) continuous real-time adjustment of the relative phase of the two electrical grids. With HVDC instead the interconnection would: (1) Convert AC in Seattle into HVDC. (2) Use HVDC for the three thousand miles of cross country transmission. Then (3) convert the HVDC to locally synchronized AC in Boston, and optionally in other cooperating cities along the transmission route. One prominent example of such a transmission line is the Pacific DC Intertie located in the Western United States.

Within same link.

 

[StarryEyed]

JustAFriend nailed it. Now the reason you need to be able to step voltage up and down is that power equals voltage times current. One thousand watts can be sent at 12 volts at 83.3 amps or 1000 volts at 1 amp. The later is much more efficient because the higher the amperage, the larger the conductor has to be and the more loss through resistance. We need to be able to transmit power at very high voltages and step them down at the destination. Thats where transformers come in but these are AC devices. Stepping DC up and down is enormously more complicated and expensive.

 

[SamuraiBlue]

Oh boy some people real don't read.

Let's look go over the quote again.

HVDC

Main article: High-voltage direct current

High voltage direct current (HVDC) is used to transmit large amounts of power over long distances or for interconnections between asynchronous grids. When electrical energy is required to be transmitted over very long distances, it can be more economical to transmit using direct current instead of alternating current. For a long transmission line, the value of the smaller losses, and reduced construction cost of a DC line, can offset the additional cost of converter stations at each end of the line. Also, at high AC voltages significant (although economically acceptable) amounts of energy are lost due to corona discharge, the capacitance between phases or, in the case of buried cables, between phases and the soil or water in which the cable is buried.

Which part do you not underatand?

 

[StarryEyed]

^ I didn't have to read it. I've worked in the electronics field all my adult life. Transmitting a single line between grids where you only need 1 converter on each end is nowhere near equal to sending DC to everyone's house at a fixed voltage. You can still have solar plants - and fact they exist - but the present AC distribution system is far and away the only practical way to distribute it.

 

[Saturn0660]

JustAFriend said:
Pumping DC over ANY distance is highly inefficient. That's why Edison's DC transmission lost out to Tesla's (ok, Westinghouse's) AC system.

You can already pump AC back into the grid with standard equipment.

...the basic problem is that solar is inefficient and DIRTY (the chemicals and materials used to make solar panels is nasty, not to mention the big submarine-style batteries you'd need for a reasonable home setup without living like you're in the 1920s....) Plus the vast majority of homes will be in areas that are not efficient for solar collection due to weather or orientation.

The surface of the Earth is not the place to put solar panels. Put them closer to the Sun and beam the power back.

You said it... However, Nanosolar is making solar printing press style.. MUCH lower cost.. Starting this year. look for cost to drop to about .30per watt.. Plus, remember you don't need batts for a solar.. I would use it to off set some of my power usage..