I wonder how homosexuals feel about...

[Crash]

Nonsense. Never heard of the phrase "tomboy", have you? A girl who works in a machine shop is generally regarded as less feminine by some people. Girls are just as much judged on both behaviour and looks as guys are.

A.) I never said women weren't judged base don their looks. Point in fact, I said women were judged rather harshly based on their looks.
B.) I never said women weren't judged based on behavior either. They are, but it is increasingly unpopular to criticize a woman who behaves in more masculine ways as it is, rightfully, considered sexist. The same progress can't be said for men who behave in what society deems a feminine manner.

On topic: The gays I know have no problem whatsoever with calling something "gay"; they do it themselves. Not only that, but calling something gay has little to do with homosexuality, and everything with looking like a drag queen. It's a common misconception that gays have to flap their hands, have to walk ultra-feminine and have to wear makeup. That's nonsense.

This isn't on topic. The question isn't whether or not gay people like to be called gay, but whether or not if they like the idea that a chunk of the population uses the same definition of the word as a sign of weakness.

 

[RoJoHen]

It is right up there with Thats Quier.

Honestly, this probably has more to do with it. People used to say things were "queer" (odd or abnormal), and then "queer" evolved into a euphemism for "gay," and so "gay" kind of back-pedaled and took on the old meaning of "queer."

So saying "That's gay" really means "That's queer" which really means "That's odd." The main problem is that teenagers have no tact and mean it in a much more unfriendly way.

 

[Gryffindorian]

The phrase "That's gay" has become a regular part of everyday culture that it doesn't even have anything to do with homosexuality. It basically means stupid.

I disagree. Words don't exist in a cultural vacuum, and given the current political and social climate in the United States it's pretty clear what the implication is, as I outlined above.

So you're saying it has a homosexual connotation? That may be the case, but also realize that the English language is constantly evolving. How many thousands of new words are added to the English dictionary every year?

Besides, I've noticed that young people tend to say "gay" or "that's gay" without any reference to homosexuality whatsoever. If you look in the dictionary, you'll even notice that gay can also mean happy just as queer can mean strange.

 

[Crash]

So you're saying it has a homosexual connotation? That may be the case, but also realize that the English language is constantly evolving. How many thousands of new words are added to the English dictionary every year?

Besides, I've noticed that young people tend to say "gay" or "that's gay" without any reference to homosexuality whatsoever. If you look in the dictionary, you'll even notice that gay can also mean happy just as queer can mean strange.

Your first paragraph contradicts your second. You argue that the English is constantly evolving, and then attempt to pin the definition of "gay" and "queer" to outmoded meanings that certainly aren't in use by today's young people. Sorry, that doesn't fly.

My suggestion is to stop being obtuse. We both know that the people who use this term know exactly what it means, and we both know what, in today's society, what happens to men who behave in a manner that fails to meet society's definition of how a man should act.

 

[JustKate]

When I've heard it used in this way, it doesn't mean "happy" or "cheerful." It means "kind of effeminate." I can't say that's how everybody uses it, but that's how I've heard this used - just like in Camelopard's anecdote.

I agree that most people who use this casual version of "That's gay" don't really mean "homosexual," nor do they intend it to insult gays (though that might very well be the result), but it is definitely a put-down. They definitely intend to convey the meaning "I don't like whatever it is we're talking about."

 

[Goliath]

^Nobody uses 'gay' in the sense of 'happy' any more.

Or rather, the only time I've heard or seen anyone use it that way is when they're making a point about its other uses.

Aside from its use in old songs like "Deck the Halls" and the Flintstones theme, its original sense is practically extinct.

 

[ThankQ]

It is right up there with Thats Quier.

Honestly, this probably has more to do with it. People used to say things were "queer" (odd or abnormal), and then "queer" evolved into a euphemism for "gay," and so "gay" kind of back-pedaled and took on the old meaning of "queer."

So saying "That's gay" really means "That's queer" which really means "That's odd." The main problem is that teenagers have no tact and mean it in a much more unfriendly way.

When was the last time you heard "queer" from anyone under 60, anyway?

 

[RoJoHen]

It is right up there with Thats Quier.

Honestly, this probably has more to do with it. People used to say things were "queer" (odd or abnormal), and then "queer" evolved into a euphemism for "gay," and so "gay" kind of back-pedaled and took on the old meaning of "queer."

So saying "That's gay" really means "That's queer" which really means "That's odd." The main problem is that teenagers have no tact and mean it in a much more unfriendly way.

When was the last time you heard "queer" from anyone under 60, anyway?

Um, when I was little, I used to play Smear the Queer.

Probably a bad example.

All I was trying to get at was a possible evolution of the word.

 

[ShamelessMcBundy]

Odd. I didn't play Smear the Queer until college ...

 

[RoJoHen]

Odd. I didn't play Smear the Queer until college ...

I broke my best friend's arm playing Smear the Queer. I don't play it anymore.

 

[Goliath]

It is right up there with Thats Quier.

Honestly, this probably has more to do with it. People used to say things were "queer" (odd or abnormal), and then "queer" evolved into a euphemism for "gay," and so "gay" kind of back-pedaled and took on the old meaning of "queer."

So saying "That's gay" really means "That's queer" which really means "That's odd." The main problem is that teenagers have no tact and mean it in a much more unfriendly way.

When was the last time you heard "queer" from anyone under 60, anyway?

Actually, you hear it a lot in academia. Queer theory is big in some circles--and a bit of a joke in others. On Facebook, you can give away "vacuous, hip queer theorists" as one of many "shite gifts for academics."

EDIT: I just remembered that one of the professors here, in the Department of Sociology, does queer theory. He has a sign on his office door advertising a new book that he has co-authored entitled The Canadian War on Queers: National Security as Sexual Regulation.

 

[ThankQ]

Odd. I didn't play Smear the Queer until college ...

This needs a rimshot.

 

[ShamelessMcBundy]

Odd. I didn't play Smear the Queer until college ...

I broke my best friend's arm playing Smear the Queer. I don't play it anymore.

Sounds rough.

 

[RoJoHen]

Odd. I didn't play Smear the Queer until college ...

This needs a rimshot.

I have a feeling he's already got that covered.

 

[ShamelessMcBundy]

Odd. I didn't play Smear the Queer until college ...

This needs a rimshot.

I have a feeling he's already got that covered.

Or uncovered.

 

[Gryffindorian]

So you're saying it has a homosexual connotation? That may be the case, but also realize that the English language is constantly evolving. How many thousands of new words are added to the English dictionary every year?

Besides, I've noticed that young people tend to say "gay" or "that's gay" without any reference to homosexuality whatsoever. If you look in the dictionary, you'll even notice that gay can also mean happy just as queer can mean strange.

Your first paragraph contradicts your second. You argue that the English is constantly evolving, and then attempt to pin the definition of "gay" and "queer" to outmoded meanings that certainly aren't in use by today's young people. Sorry, that doesn't fly.

My suggestion is to stop being obtuse. We both know that the people who use this term know exactly what it means, and we both know what, in today's society, what happens to men who behave in a manner that fails to meet society's definition of how a man should act.

Which part of my first and second paragraphs contradict each other? Point #1: Words are evolving, having different meanings as used by different people and different generations. Point #2: To prove my point exactly, "gay" is used by youngsters to denote something stupid or objectionable (rather than someone who's a homosexual). Reading Comprehension 101.

 

[DiSiLLUSiON]

A.) I never said women weren't judged base don their looks. Point in fact, I said women were judged rather harshly based on their looks.
B.) I never said women weren't judged based on behavior either. They are, but it is increasingly unpopular to criticize a woman who behaves in more masculine ways as it is, rightfully, considered sexist. The same progress can't be said for men who behave in what society deems a feminine manner.

There is nothing wrong with sexism (up to a point); we are, after all, different genders. Mostly, people are beginning to see that we aren't the same, we are equal, and that there is a difference.

You indeed said women were judged on her looks, that is why I gave that example; in my opinion, most women are judged on their behavior as much as their looks, unless they completely disregard their looks. A tomboy can still look beautiful, if she only keeps giving attention to her looks. When she doesn't, she doesn't look less feminine, she just looks ugly. And it's the same with guys; nowadays, you can't walk into a bar with an old oversized sweater, not having shaved for a week and without a goot haircut; you, as a guy, are judged on those looks. And rightly so, everybody should pay attention to both the outside and the inside.

People judge both females and males exactly the same; both on their looks and on their behavior. Only those who feel one side is somehow "wrong", where the other "isn't", are bringing an unbalance to the equation.

The question isn't whether or not gay people like to be called gay, but whether or not if they like the idea that a chunk of the population uses the same definition of the word as a sign of weakness.

But the majority of the population doesn't use the word as a sign of weakness. At least, not over here. Because "gay" equals "feminine"; the only difference is that there's a guy involved. And over here, "feminine" does not equal "weakness". Just as "tomboy" equals "masculine", with the only difference that there's a girl involved. Those words have no derogatory meaning, unless they equal "ugly", as in example "that shirt looks gay", or "lame", as in the example "that action is gay". But in those cases, it simply has a different meaning, and has little to do with sexuality or weakness. Though in my circles, those other definitions are very rarely used; perhaps it's different under today's teenagers.

 

[Amaris]

I think it's a mindless colloquialism that most people don't even think about, and probably intend no harm by using. But I don't use it myself.

Ditto.


J.

 

[ThankQ]

So you're saying it has a homosexual connotation? That may be the case, but also realize that the English language is constantly evolving. How many thousands of new words are added to the English dictionary every year?

Besides, I've noticed that young people tend to say "gay" or "that's gay" without any reference to homosexuality whatsoever. If you look in the dictionary, you'll even notice that gay can also mean happy just as queer can mean strange.

Your first paragraph contradicts your second. You argue that the English is constantly evolving, and then attempt to pin the definition of "gay" and "queer" to outmoded meanings that certainly aren't in use by today's young people. Sorry, that doesn't fly.

My suggestion is to stop being obtuse. We both know that the people who use this term know exactly what it means, and we both know what, in today's society, what happens to men who behave in a manner that fails to meet society's definition of how a man should act.

Which part of my first and second paragraphs contradict each other? Point #1: Words are evolving, having different meanings as used by different people and different generations. Point #2: To prove my point exactly, "gay" is used by youngsters to denote something stupid or objectionable (rather than someone who's a homosexual). Reading Comprehension 101.

Correct, but they are doing so because "gay" is thought to be objectionable. They didn't pick the word out of thin air. "Dude, that's vacuous" never quite because all that popular. So why did "gay" come to mean objectionable? Of course! Because homosexuals are objectionable!

You know that. Don't lie to yourself.

 

[Crash]

Which part of my first and second paragraphs contradict each other? Point #1: Words are evolving, having different meanings as used by different people and different generations. Point #2: To prove my point exactly, "gay" is used by youngsters to denote something stupid or objectionable (rather than someone who's a homosexual). Reading Comprehension 101.

First off, let's note that you got three rapid fire responses stating the same thing. Perhaps the issue isn't with my reading comphrension, but rather your inability to properly state what you mean.

Second, your analogy is stupid. "Gay" still means "homosexual." We're not discussing an outdated term here, particularly given that is often still used as a regular insult towards individuals, whether they're actually gay or not. What we have here is your attempt to justify the use of an insulting term by attempting to explain away its negative connotations in a society that still largely distrusts the gay population.