I wish they sent Picard or Sisko back to Ardana

[Robert DeSoto]

TOS "The Cloud Minders" is an episode in need of a sequel. I would've loved to see Ardana, 100 years after Kirk helped liberate the Troglytes.

I know ENT was thinking about doing a prequel, but I am more interested in what happens after "The Cloud Minders". I think that's something more relevant to our society today.

The Troglytes have been a labour class for generations. There's bound to be resentment even after 100 years. And there's got to be City dwellers who resent the resentment especially since it was their ancestor's fault, not their own fault personally. And theres probably City dwellers who still think Troglytes are dumber than City dwellers.

This is the kind of social allegory that Star Trek is known for. It's really too bad the Enterprise-D or the Defiant never had a mission to Ardana. I would've liked to see what the writers would've come up with.

 

[Mr Silver]

FWIW, Manny Coto planned to have an Episode sent in "Ardana" for the proposed ENT Season 5...

 

[indolover]

Why was this planet even a Federation member? I thought the Federation had as a stipulation for membership social equality?

 

[Finn]

It wasn't canon during the time of TOS, I guess

 

[Smellincoffee]

Why was this planet even a Federation member? I thought the Federation had as a stipulation for membership social equality?

Requirements seem to have been VERY lax during the TOS era. I think the Federation, TOS-style was more like NATO whereas today's federation is more kin to the European Union.

 

[Finn]

Why was this planet even a Federation member? I thought the Federation had as a stipulation for membership social equality?

Requirements seem to have been VERY lax during the TOS era. I think the Federation, TOS-style was more like NATO whereas today's federation is more kin to the European Union.

Today's?

 

[T'Girl]

Requirements seem to have been VERY lax during the TOS era.

Must have been, after all they did let the Humans in.

100 years after Kirk helped liberate the Troglytes.

This was never my impression, Kirk made one of his speeches, the local aristocracy told him to eat shit and die, Kirk took the zenite and went away.

All Kirk really did is deliver some filter masks to the miners, but what about the rest of the Troglytes? Mister Spock's hot little shorty said something like "the troglyte do the mining and till the soil." If you consider the (usually) tiny percentage of a general work force which is in mining, most trogytes likely don't work in the mines. And weren't exposed to zenite gas. So never experienced the effects, the arrival of mask didn't change their lives in the least. The aristocrats were still in charge, looking down at the lower classes.

Of course the agricultural and manufacturing troglytes might also look down on the miners, even a century later. Because they were perceived as "stupid."

I think that's something more relevant to our society today.

What do you mean?

 

[YARN]

TOS "The Cloud Minders" is an episode in need of a sequel. I would've loved to see Ardana, 100 years after Kirk helped liberate the Troglytes.

I know ENT was thinking about doing a prequel, but I am more interested in what happens after "The Cloud Minders". I think that's something more relevant to our society today.

The Troglytes have been a labour class for generations. There's bound to be resentment even after 100 years. And there's got to be City dwellers who resent the resentment especially since it was their ancestor's fault, not their own fault personally. And theres probably City dwellers who still think Troglytes are dumber than City dwellers.

This is the kind of social allegory that Star Trek is known for. It's really too bad the Enterprise-D or the Defiant never had a mission to Ardana. I would've liked to see what the writers would've come up with.

"This is Ardana five! Ardana six exploded six months after we were left here. The shock shifted the orbit of this planet and our zenite supply was laid waste. Admiral Kirk never bothered to check on our progress. It was only the fact of my genetically superior intellect as a former dweller of stratos that allowed us to survive. On Stratos, a hundred years ago... I was a high advisor with power of millions of Troglytes"

Exerpted from the script for Wrath of Droxine

 

[Sci]

Why was this planet even a Federation member? I thought the Federation had as a stipulation for membership social equality?

Why did the United States ally with the military dictatorship in Chile or trade with countries it knew were supplying conflict diamonds? Because sometimes you look the other way when you need something from someone. The Federation probably desperately needed Ardana's dilithium during the cold war with the Klingons and looked the other way until Captain Kirk forced them to confront how oppressive the Ardanan social structure truly was.

 

[Captain Rob]

TOS "The Cloud Minders" is an episode in need of a sequel. I would've loved to see Ardana, 100 years after Kirk helped liberate the Troglytes.

I know ENT was thinking about doing a prequel, but I am more interested in what happens after "The Cloud Minders". I think that's something more relevant to our society today.

The Troglytes have been a labour class for generations. There's bound to be resentment even after 100 years. And there's got to be City dwellers who resent the resentment especially since it was their ancestor's fault, not their own fault personally. And theres probably City dwellers who still think Troglytes are dumber than City dwellers.

This is the kind of social allegory that Star Trek is known for. It's really too bad the Enterprise-D or the Defiant never had a mission to Ardana. I would've liked to see what the writers would've come up with.

"This is Ardana five! Ardana six exploded six months after we were left here. The shock shifted the orbit of this planet and our zenite supply was laid waste. Admiral Kirk never bothered to check on our progress. It was only the fact of my genetically superior intellect as a former dweller of stratos that allowed us to survive. On Stratos, a hundred years ago... I was a high advisor with power of millions of Troglytes"

Exerpted from the script for Wrath of Droxine

I'm in as long as she (or her descendant) still looks good in that floaty boob dress.

 

[Robert DeSoto]

Why was this planet even a Federation member? I thought the Federation had as a stipulation for membership social equality?

Requirements seem to have been VERY lax during the TOS era. I think the Federation, TOS-style was more like NATO whereas today's federation is more kin to the European Union.

To be fair, it doesn't seem like anyone was aware of the situation. Kirk had been there before, but he had no idea how bad the situation was. Picard was about recommend the Federation Council admit the Angosians as a member. If it wasn't for the jail break at the Angosian penal colony, the Federation might have never known about the Angosian political prisoners. That said, once Kirk was aware of the situation on Ardana, I would've thought there is some constitutional guarantee of civil rights written in the Federation charter. Something that no local government can supersede.

 

[Robert DeSoto]

Requirements seem to have been VERY lax during the TOS era.

Must have been, after all they did let the Humans in.

100 years after Kirk helped liberate the Troglytes.

This was never my impression, Kirk made one of his speeches, the local aristocracy told him to eat shit and die, Kirk took the zenite and went away.

All Kirk really did is deliver some filter masks to the miners, but what about the rest of the Troglytes? Mister Spock's hot little shorty said something like "the troglyte do the mining and till the soil." If you consider the (usually) tiny percentage of a general work force which is in mining, most trogytes likely don't work in the mines. And weren't exposed to zenite gas. So never experienced the effects, the arrival of mask didn't change their lives in the least. The aristocrats were still in charge, looking down at the lower classes.

Of course the agricultural and manufacturing troglytes might also look down on the miners, even a century later. Because they were perceived as "stupid."

I think that's something more relevant to our society today.

What do you mean?

You're right, he didn't actually liberate them. He just referred them to the "FBI" to mediate the situation. For all we know, a civil war could have started because of Kirk. Maybe the Troglytes killed the city dwellers and overthrew the government lol. Maybe Ardana isn't even a Federation member anymore. Whatever happened, I still think it would be fun to do a follow up episode.

 

[Smellincoffee]

Why was this planet even a Federation member? I thought the Federation had as a stipulation for membership social equality?

Requirements seem to have been VERY lax during the TOS era. I think the Federation, TOS-style was more like NATO whereas today's federation is more kin to the European Union.

Today's?

You know, the 24th century's.

 

[USS Triumphant]

Today's?

You know, the 24th century's.

Psst... good cover. But it's the Twenty-Fifth Century. Where have YOU been?

 

[Finn]

I thought it was the nu23rd Century

 

[Satyrquaze]

I think the compromise would be the 24th and half century.

 

[USS Triumphant]

Okay. That literally made me laugh out loud.

 

[T'Girl]

I would've thought there is some constitutional guarantee of civil rights written in the Federation charter. Something that no local government can supersede.

High Advisor Plasus (To Kirk) Your Federation's orders do not entitle you to defy local governments.

But could the Federation do that? Supersede the plantary government?

Yes, a century later the Federation President does declare martial law over Earth as (apparently) an individual action of his office, but that was a time of war. Outside of the Prime Directive, there are numerious usage in diferent episodes of the term "non-interfereance," Plasus uses the threat of reporting Kirk for interfereance to Starfleet to kick him off Ardana at one point.

Could the Federation supersede at all?

 

[USS Triumphant]

Could the Federation supersede at all?

Based on the differences in the apparent relationship between member worlds and the central government of the Federation, and the change in the way symbols are used in Starfleet, I think there may have been a dramatic change in the nature of the Federation sometime after TOS and before TMP. Something akin to the difference between the Articles of Confederation and the U.S. Constitution.

 

[Sci]

I would've thought there is some constitutional guarantee of civil rights written in the Federation charter. Something that no local government can supersede.

High Advisor Plasus (To Kirk) Your Federation's orders do not entitle you to defy local governments.

But could the Federation do that? Supersede the plantary government?

Yes, a century later the Federation President does declare martial law over Earth as (apparently) an individual action of his office, but that was a time of war.

The Dominion War didn't happen for another season and a half after that episode, actually.

Outside of the Prime Directive, there are numerious usage in diferent episodes of the term "non-interfereance," Plasus uses the threat of reporting Kirk for interfereance to Starfleet to kick him off Ardana at one point.

Could the Federation supersede at all?

I see no reason to think it couldn't. The Southern states were convinced the federal government had no right to make laws they didn't like, but that has more to do with their own desire to preserve an exploitative hierarchy in the face of federal opposition than legal reality. I see no reason to think that the Ardanans aren't speaking out of their asses because they want to preserve their unequal society.