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I was asked to re-write Kirks death...

lewisniven

Lieutenant Commander
Red Shirt
Lots is said about how Kirk wasn't given a proper send off in Generations, and I tend to agree. So that got me thinking, what would be a proper send off, how do you properly kill a character like that?

If I was writing the script today, I'd contrive a way to get kirk on board the ENT-D, which given how cavalier they were about what the nexus could do, would probably be pretty easy.

Then I'd have kirk go down with the ship, he'd pilot the star-drive away from the saucer to get them out of range of the explosion, or in some way assist the crew and die aboard the star drive.

This way Kirk dies a true hero in our minds, and goes down with the beloved E-D, which imo, would be a far more fitting end.

Anyone else have any better ideas?
 
I see nothing essentially wrong with his "first" death aboard the 1701-B.

That's part of the problem with Generations. We get to see Kirk die twice, but the second time around it's a complete anti-climax because the first death was already so effective.

I know I'm repeating myself a little from the other thread, but if I were re-writing the movie, I'd never bring Kirk back after the first reel at all. I'd remind the audience of his role in the backstory, but I wouldn't resurrect him in any way later in the movie. I'd just leave his first heroic death the way it was.
 
Just rewatched Generations. I think Kirk's death is more effectively told by others.

First, Chekov: "My god! Was anyone in here?" That was perfect.

Then I'd be fine with Picard talking to Kirk in the Nexus, because he's got to have a way to beat Soran. But let there be a glitch in him returning to real space. Or let Picard learn from him, but leave him in the Nexus, and then Picard says something about not being able to bring him back. Something where Picard echoes Chekov's surprise or Scotty's sorrow. A bit like Kirk's own line about Spock - "Of all the souls I have encountered in the world, his was the most -- human."
 
Anyone else have any better ideas?

I would have set the climax of the film on the Enterprise-B. Picard tells Kirk his plan to return to Veridian III, Kirk says he has a better idea, and BAMF! Enterprise-B. Only, Soran has followed them, and he's determined to drive the Enterprise-B into the Nexus itself. And as Harriman, Scotty, and Chekov stare out into the abyss of night, the bridge contacts to them them know that something is happening down in Engineering...

It needs work, but that's basically what I would do.
 
Let's see...I suppose I'd probably have Kirk somehow captured from the planet surface by the Duras sisters and taken aboard the BOP (unbeknownst to Riker on board the Enterprise) and held captive on the Klingon bridge while they are about to destroy the Ent-D. He breaks free from his Klingon guard at the last moment, bashes his way through several other Klingons, and dives for the shield controls (which he knows where to find due to his familiarity with the BOP from TVH) and drops the Klingons' shields.

Then Riker can destroy the BOP and emote touchingly afterward upon learning from Picard that he has just killed James T. Kirk as well.
 
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Anyone else have any better ideas?

I would have set the climax of the film on the Enterprise-B. Picard tells Kirk his plan to return to Veridian III, Kirk says he has a better idea, and BAMF! Enterprise-B. Only, Soran has followed them, and he's determined to drive the Enterprise-B into the Nexus itself. And as Harriman, Scotty, and Chekov stare out into the abyss of night, the bridge contacts to them them know that something is happening down in Engineering...

It needs work, but that's basically what I would do.

Let's see...I suppose I'd probably have Kirk somehow captured from the planet surface by the Duras sisters and taken aboard the BOP (unbeknownst to Riker on board the Enterprise) and held captive on the Klingon bridge while they are about to destroy the Ent-D. He breaks free from his Klingon guard at the last moment, bashes his way through several other Klingons, and dives for the shield controls (which he knows where to find due to his familiarity with the BOP from TVH) and drops the Klingon's shields.

Then Riker can destroy the BOP and emote touchingly afterward upon learning from Picard that he has just killed James T. Kirk as well.

Either one of these would've been superior to what we got in the final version of the film.
 
Anyone else have any better ideas?

I would have set the climax of the film on the Enterprise-B. Picard tells Kirk his plan to return to Veridian III, Kirk says he has a better idea, and BAMF! Enterprise-B. Only, Soran has followed them, and he's determined to drive the Enterprise-B into the Nexus itself. And as Harriman, Scotty, and Chekov stare out into the abyss of night, the bridge contacts to them them know that something is happening down in Engineering...

It needs work, but that's basically what I would do.

Let's see...I suppose I'd probably have Kirk somehow captured from the planet surface by the Duras sisters and taken aboard the BOP (unbeknownst to Riker on board the Enterprise) and held captive on the Klingon bridge while they are about to destroy the Ent-D. He breaks free from his Klingon guard at the last moment, bashes his way through several other Klingons, and dives for the shield controls (which he knows where to find due to his familiarity with the BOP from TVH) and drops the Klingon's shields.

Then Riker can destroy the BOP and emote touchingly afterward upon learning from Picard that he has just killed James T. Kirk as well.

Either one of these would've been superior to what we got in the final version of the film.

+1
 
Anyone else have any better ideas?

I would have set the climax of the film on the Enterprise-B. Picard tells Kirk his plan to return to Veridian III, Kirk says he has a better idea, and BAMF! Enterprise-B. Only, Soran has followed them, and he's determined to drive the Enterprise-B into the Nexus itself. And as Harriman, Scotty, and Chekov stare out into the abyss of night, the bridge contacts to them them know that something is happening down in Engineering...

It needs work, but that's basically what I would do.

Lets expand on this.
Suppose Kirk never returned command to Harriman but instead stayed on the bridge due to his ego of thinking he still belongs there. Somehow Harriman doesn't succeed, perhaps hampered by Soran who desperately wants to return to the Nexus. Structural integrate fails and the Enterprise-B and all hands are lost, save from a few escape pods (one containing Soran). Unknown to everyone, Kirk somehow ended up in the Nexus.

TNG part...

Picard discovers that Kirk isn't dead and in fact has lived all these years in regret knowing he couldn't save the ship. Kirk sees it as a curse that he isn't allowed to die. During his time with Picard he somehow gets a epiphany (Picard speech?) that should've gone to fix the macguffin instead of Harriman. Kirk goes back to that moment in time, returns command to Harriman, fights Soran in engineering, and saves the ship. The last hit still happens, including the 'OMG, was someone in here' dialogue. The end.
Then, after the credits we see Kirk in the Nexus, happy, with Carol, smiling.
 
Heh, they shouldn't have killed him at all, just left him alive in the 24th century with Spock and Scotty.
 
I would have set the climax of the film on the Enterprise-B. Picard tells Kirk his plan to return to Veridian III, Kirk says he has a better idea, and BAMF! Enterprise-B. Only, Soran has followed them, and he's determined to drive the Enterprise-B into the Nexus itself. And as Harriman, Scotty, and Chekov stare out into the abyss of night, the bridge contacts to them them know that something is happening down in Engineering...

It needs work, but that's basically what I would do.

Let's see...I suppose I'd probably have Kirk somehow captured from the planet surface by the Duras sisters and taken aboard the BOP (unbeknownst to Riker on board the Enterprise) and held captive on the Klingon bridge while they are about to destroy the Ent-D. He breaks free from his Klingon guard at the last moment, bashes his way through several other Klingons, and dives for the shield controls (which he knows where to find due to his familiarity with the BOP from TVH) and drops the Klingon's shields.

Then Riker can destroy the BOP and emote touchingly afterward upon learning from Picard that he has just killed James T. Kirk as well.

Either one of these would've been superior to what we got in the final version of the film.

+1

As I said in the other thread, I love Generations, but yeah, both of those ideas are good. I especially like the idea of Picard meeting Kirk in the Nexus, but having Kirk remain there.
 
I think the trick here is not changing the existing story and themes around too much. Kirk's death could be more heroic and mirror his first "death scene" just by reversing the order in which the Enterprise was destroyed and Soran was defeated in the last ten minutes or so of the movie.

Picard and Kirk defeat Soran. Picard contacts the Enterprise, and Riker tells him they are under attack. Picard says to phase the shields and transporter and beam him directly to the bridge, he then glances over at Kirk who looks at him and says something like, “Well, I’ve come this far -- ,” or “In for a penny -- .” Picard nods and says to make that two to beam to the bridge.

Picard and Kirk materialize on a bridge that’s hectic with action and taking punishment. Riker comes up to the two, stares for a moment at Kirk as if he’s seeing a ghost, then snaps out of it to inform Picard of what is happening and what their plan is. Kirk is looking around the bridge taking it all in. His eyes fix for a moment on Worf at his weapons station, who gives him a “what are you starring at?” look. Kirk’s attention then turns to the view screen and the bird of prey spraying fire at the Enterprise. Picard tells Riker to implement the plan, and it works as it did in the original story. The Klingon ship is destroyed.

Before there is any time to celebrate, Geordi informs the bridge the warp core is going to breach in about ten minutes and there’s nothing he can do about it. Picard issues an order for all crew to be evacuated to the saucer section and to prepare for separation. Amid the commotion, Kirk just stands there, feeling more helpless than he felt on the bridge of the Enterprise-B.

Data informs Picard that a branch of the nexus is approaching fast, and if they get caught in its gravimetric field, they won’t get away. Kirk suddenly snaps to life. He asks Picard if the weapons systems still work. Picard looks at Worf, who says they’re out in the saucer, but work in the secondary hull. Without saying a word, Kirk bolts to a turbolift, enters, and instinctively says, “secondary bridge” after the door closes. He exits into a corridor and starts fighting upstream against the fleeing crew. He enters the secondary bridge, identifies the weapons system, and puts it online. Picard hails him about what he’s doing. He tells Picard that he has it on good advice that if he can fire several photon torpedoes into the nexus, it will distort the gravitational field enough to buy them time to escape. Picard tells him he won’t have time to get out. Kirk tells him to lock a transporter beam onto him, and beam him out on his command after he’s fired the torpedoes.

Geordi informs Picard everyone is aboard the saucer. It separates, but the pull of the nexus has already made it impossible to get away. On the viewscreen, Picard sees several photon torpedoes exit the secondary hull and enter the nexus. There are bright flashes of color, then everything in the nexus slows and it grows dim. Data informs Picard that the pull of the nexus has been neutralized. Picard calls for full impulse power then yells for Kirk to be beamed out, but as he finishes his words, there is a large flash on the viewscreen that attracts everyone’s attention. Part of the nexus hit the secondary hull at about the same time the hull blew up. The transporter room reports it lost its lock on Kirk. There is silence on the bridge, broken suddenly by Data yelling, “Oh, shit!” Picard spins and looks at him. Data says that while they are free of the nexus, the force of the blow of the secondary hull has knocked the controls offline and they are careening toward Veridian III.

The Enterprise saucer crashes as it did in the original story, but with Picard in the captain’s chair. As the ship stops, the screen fades to black, and when it comes back, it’s obvious some time has passed and the crew is scouring the saucer for whatever personal items they can salvage. In an ending similar to the actual ending, as they await rescue from the Farragut, Riker and Picard are on the bridge as Picard looks for his photo book. In their conversation, Riker laments the loss of the ship and notes the bravery of Kirk in giving his life for the ship and crew. Picard remarks that they thought that eighty years ago too, and they turned out to be wrong on one point. He wasn't dead. Picard says he wasn’t going to make the same mistake, and Kirk is officially listed as “missing” in his log.

That ending creates some ambivalence about Kirk’s fate, too.
 
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Maybe ... Perhaps ... Have Kirk & Soren do a Quick Draw with their guns and they shoot at almost the same instant. Both hitting eachother's target. Soren is killed instantly, but Kirk lingers, just long enough to make a touching Death Bed Request™ of Picard, or whatever ...
 
Heh, they shouldn't have killed him at all, just left him alive in the 24th century with Spock and Scotty.

This is the thing. Moore, Braga and Berman worked from the assumption that it would be "silly" to bring Kirk into the 24th century, and painted themselves into the corner of killing him off, when really it wasn't necessary at all, as evidenced by Spock and Scotty still bouncing around out there. Just have him retire to that log cabin of his (a real one, not the one in the Nexus).
 
Heh, they shouldn't have killed him at all, just left him alive in the 24th century with Spock and Scotty.

This is the thing. Moore, Braga and Berman worked from the assumption that it would be "silly" to bring Kirk into the 24th century, and painted themselves into the corner of killing him off, when really it wasn't necessary at all, as evidenced by Spock and Scotty still bouncing around out there. Just have him retire to that log cabin of his (a real one, not the one in the Nexus).

Couldn't agree more. I guess we have the comfort of knowing that he came back in the 'Shatnerverse' ;P
 
Have him ride the trilithium rocket to crash on the surface of Veridian III, Dr. Strangelove-style :lol:

Dead like Bucky

And he'll be back! Star Trek: Winter Captain!
Coming to a basement wall in a neighborhood, somewhere.


I think the trick here is not changing the existing story and themes around too much. Kirk's death could be more heroic and mirror his first "death scene" just by reversing the order in which the Enterprise was destroyed and Soran was defeated in the last ten minutes or so of the movie.

Picard and Kirk defeat Soran. Picard contacts the Enterprise, and Riker tells him they are under attack. Picard says to phase the shields and transporter and beam him directly to the bridge, he then glances over at Kirk who looks at him and says something like, “Well, I’ve come this far -- ,” or “In for a penny -- .” Picard nods and says to make that two to beam to the bridge.

Picard and Kirk materialize on a bridge that’s hectic with action and taking punishment. Riker comes up to the two, stares for a moment at Kirk as if he’s seeing a ghost, then snaps out of it to inform Picard of what is happening and what their plan is. Kirk is looking around the bridge taking it all in. His eyes fix for a moment on Worf at his weapons station, who gives him a “what are you starring at?” look. Kirk’s attention then turns to the view screen and the bird of prey spraying fire at the Enterprise. Picard tells Riker to implement the plan, and it works as it did in the original story. The Klingon ship is destroyed.

Before there is any time to celebrate, Geordi informs the bridge the warp core is going to breach in about ten minutes and there’s nothing he can do about it. Picard issues an order for all crew to be evacuated to the saucer section and to prepare for separation. Amid the commotion, Kirk just stands there, feeling more helpless than he felt on the bridge of the Enterprise-B.

Data informs Picard that a branch of the nexus is approaching fast, and if they get caught in its gravimetric field, they won’t get away. Kirk suddenly snaps to life. He asks Picard if the weapons systems still work. Picard looks at Worf, who says they’re out in the saucer, but work in the secondary hull. Without saying a word, Kirk bolts to a turbolift, enters, and instinctively says, “secondary bridge” after the door closes. He exits into a corridor and starts fighting upstream against the fleeing crew. He enters the secondary bridge, identifies the weapons system, and puts it online. Picard hails him about what he’s doing. He tells Picard that he has it on good advice that if he can fire several photon torpedoes into the nexus, it will distort the gravitational field enough to buy them time to escape. Picard tells him he won’t have time to get out. Kirk tells him to lock a transporter beam onto him, and beam him out on his command after he’s fired the torpedoes.

Geordi informs Picard everyone is aboard the saucer. It separates, but the pull of the nexus has already made it impossible to get away. On the viewscreen, Picard sees several photon torpedoes exit the secondary hull and enter the nexus. There are bright flashes of color, then everything in the nexus slows and it grows dim. Data informs Picard that the pull of the nexus has been neutralized. Picard calls for full impulse power then yells for Kirk to be beamed out, but as he finishes his words, there is a large flash on the viewscreen that attracts everyone’s attention. Part of the nexus hit the secondary hull at about the same time the hull blew up. The transporter room reports it lost its lock on Kirk. There is silence on the bridge, broken suddenly by Data yelling, “Oh, shit!” Picard spins and looks at him. Data says that while they are free of the nexus, the force of the blow of the secondary hull has knocked the controls offline and they are careening toward Veridian III.

The Enterprise saucer crashes as it did in the original story, but with Picard in the captain’s chair. As the ship stops, the screen fades to black, and when it comes back, it’s obvious some time has passed and the crew is scouring the saucer for whatever personal items they can salvage. In an ending similar to the actual ending, as they await rescue from the Farragut, Riker and Picard are on the bridge as Picard looks for his photo book. In their conversation, Riker laments the loss of the ship and notes the bravery of Kirk in giving his life for the ship and crew. Picard remarks that they thought that eighty years ago too, and they turned out to be wrong on one point. He wasn't dead. Picard says he wasn’t going to make the same mistake, and Kirk is officially listed as “missing” in his log.

That ending creates some ambivalence about Kirk’s fate, too.

That is sooo much better than the actual movie. :brickwall:

I even made one a while back, I might repost it later.

Heh, they shouldn't have killed him at all, just left him alive in the 24th century with Spock and Scotty.

This is the thing. Moore, Braga and Berman worked from the assumption that it would be "silly" to bring Kirk into the 24th century, and painted themselves into the corner of killing him off, when really it wasn't necessary at all, as evidenced by Spock and Scotty still bouncing around out there. Just have him retire to that log cabin of his (a real one, not the one in the Nexus).

Couldn't agree more. I guess we have the comfort of knowing that he came back in the 'Shatnerverse' ;P


I love those books. I wish they could have incorporated them somehow, but I know they don't do that with novels.
 
This is the thing. Moore, Braga and Berman worked from the assumption that it would be "silly" to bring Kirk into the 24th century, and painted themselves into the corner of killing him off, when really it wasn't necessary at all, as evidenced by Spock and Scotty still bouncing around out there. Just have him retire to that log cabin of his (a real one, not the one in the Nexus).

Couldn't agree more. I guess we have the comfort of knowing that he came back in the 'Shatnerverse' ;P


I love those books. I wish they could have incorporated them somehow, but I know they don't do that with novels.

I do too with the primary reason - especially with the first two books "The Ashes of Eden" and "The Return" being they brought back my boyhood hero.
 
Re: If I was asked to re-write Kirks death...

I'd have kirk go down with the ship
Yes, I think that's the best way to do it. I think the Nexus and Soran are superfluous elements and don't really need to be retained. How I imagine it:


Kirk and several TNG character are on the bridge of the Enterprise (preferably Kirk's Enterprise). The ship is damaged: there is no autopilot, no comms and no self-destruct.

A doomsday weapon has been integrated with the ship's engine and there's no way to turn it off. Furthermore, it is emitting deadly radiation at an increasing rate. This will endanger the nearby planet, and also anyone who pilots the ship away. Even then, the only way to stop the weapon's deadly emission is to destroy it.

The TNG characters argue about what to do, Picard trying to figure out how to fix the problem without sacrificing any of his crew. While they argue, a little smile appears on Kirk's face, and finally he announces he has the solution.

They turn to him, Kirk pulls a phaser and tells them they have to leave the ship. Picard reiterates that he wants a solution where no-one dies. Kirk replies, "You forget, Captain, you're talking to a dead man."

The TNG people leave the bridge. Kirk takes the helm and pilots the ship away from the planet. Then we realise he is actually heading the ship into the sun. The music swells. Kirk is sweating from the heat, TOS-style.

Then you have a choice of quotes before the fade to white:

"It was fun."
"It is a far, far better thing I do than I have ever done (etc.)"
"Here's to the next generation."

.
 
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