I want to go home again...

[Christopher]

Why should I care about static characters? Honest question.

But the main characters are not the only ones. The standard format of episodic television like TOS, and of similarly episodic book series like Trek novels used to be, is to tell stories featuring guest characters who can grow and change, with the main characters as catalysts and participants in their stories, or to have the guest characters be people the main characters have developing relationships with over the course of the story (albeit reset at the end).

Again, though, I don't see the value in arguing over different individual tastes. You don't have to like every single book. Not every book should be written exclusively for one person's tastes, because other people with different tastes deserve to have books written for them as well.

 

[Mage]

Doing the same thing forever is not boring. Trust me. There's something both comforting and reassuring about it.

And your opinion is why I don't see anything wrong with the 24th century books doing both new stuff (what you like), and showing us an adventure during the series years every other book. That way, we both get what we want. It would slow things down, sure, but you guys have had your way since 2001. It's time to go back to the status quo for a while.

You talk about status quo as if doing novels set during the shows are the only option. Like I stated about, bit of both is good man.
And I respect that you feel that it has to be either the way you used to like it or nothing at all, but that's kinda black and white isn't? I mean, we live in a world where multiple options are available to us.

 

[Claudia]

I wouldn't call it a legitimate option as there doesn't seem to be an actual problem. The books and storyline will move on, "we" just will not bare witness to what actually happened to Romulus, it'll just get mentioned in passing just like the other times things in Trek 09 have been mentioned in the last eight years.

Hm, one of the major players in the ST-universe/Typhon Pact gets blown up/swallowed by a supernova... and it's only worth a passing mention? I'm not sure how that should work because it's a major event in interstellar diplomacy as Spock failed on working out a solution. So unless all novels set after the supernova take place in a remote corner of the galaxy (i.e. planet/species of the week-like), I don't see how that's going to be handled in a credible way when only mentioned "in passing".

BTW, I thought novels shouldn't be set in the ST09-AU - but they can show/deal with the aftermath of the supernova, can't they? I mean, the movies no longer have any anchor in the original universe with Spock Prime being officially dead... So there shouldn't be any problem to focus on the aftermath, should there?

@ Mage,

*g* Harry Kim might have gotten promoted - but he's still as uninteresting/boring a character as ever. But I agree on Kira.

Still would like to see some novels set within the series-timeframe or at least featuring the TV-cast. I find relaunch!TNG pretty boring with only Picard left (don't care for the other TV-characters left on the Enterprise and/or the original ones), Titan doesn't do it for me, either, VOY has a strong tendency for unfailing!Janeway (a throwback to the series after the so promising re-relaunch start), so that leaves only DS9 which I'm still looking forward to. And even that has seen better times.

 

[Christopher]

Hm, one of the major players in the ST-universe/Typhon Pact gets blown up/swallowed by a supernova... and it's only worth a passing mention? I'm not sure how that should work because it's a major event in interstellar diplomacy as Spock failed on working out a solution. So unless all novels set after the supernova take place in a remote corner of the galaxy (i.e. planet/species of the week-like), I don't see how that's going to be handled in a credible way when only mentioned "in passing".

Why? The Romulans have been a major player in interstellar politics throughout the TNG era (at least since the end of season 1), but the vast majority of 24th-century stories don't mention them at all. It's not like they're the center of the whole universe. They were in three episodes of the original series, only two with speaking roles. They were only peripherally involved in two TOS movies and featured in only one TNG movie. They were a fairly major recurring antagonist in TNG but a minor one in DS9. It's a big galaxy with plenty going on. It's easy to do Trek stories that aren't about the Romulans, because most Trek stories ever have not been about the Romulans.

BTW, I thought novels shouldn't be set in the ST09-AU - but they can show/deal with the aftermath of the supernova, can't they? I mean, the movies no longer have any anchor in the original universe with Spock Prime being officially dead... So there shouldn't be any problem to focus on the aftermath, should there?

It's not about in-universe continuity, it's about the real-world ownership of the stories that contain the concepts. Any concepts from the Bad Robot movies are excluded from Pocket's current license, regardless of which continuity they occur in.

 

[Idran]

Again, though, I don't see the value in arguing over different individual tastes.

My intention isn't to argue over taste, it's to get a better idea of where a person's tastes come from - why @RandyS enjoys what he enjoys - while also laying out where mine come from. I'm not saying mine is correct, I'm just trying to get a better understanding while trying to provide one of me (and anyone that might also be in my spot) at the same time.

And I have trouble connecting with a character involved in stuff that's forgotten about by the next stuff equally as well. I can't really empathize through the "guest star growth" model either, because I know that the character essentially no longer exists after the work's done in a way that a person I might encounter once and then never again in real life isn't; they'll never be revisited, never be mentioned, and never have any impact on anything. So any growth they gained is irrelevant. And somehow an episodic model reinforces this impression in me a lot more than a done-in-one movie or novel, something not part of a franchise.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

The one thing you could do is look at a character's growth arc and insert something which, along with what we know, might have lead to their big decision/change. Dave Galanter did that in "Troublesome Minds", for instance:

Spoiler: Spock

Spock's vulnerability to Berlis' telepathic powers causes him concern and pushes him along one more step on the road to kohlinahr.

 

[TheUsualSuspect]

I'm one for the current post-series novels, but I have sympathy for those who'd like to see more novels set in the familiar territory of the series. I'd have no objection to Pocket publishing more of those, though I'd be unlikely to buy many of them.

In regards to the Romulan supernova, it does seem problematic that we're getting so close to that event with no apparent way to deal with it. On the other hand, since Control takes place in late 2386, I think we could probably get novels in early 2387 dealing with the fallout from it without any scratching their heads and saying, "Hey, what about the supernova!"

And DRG3 seems to be keeping the main DS9 storyline in the early months of 2386, so the question shouldn't arise there for a while yet.

 

[Idran]

The one thing you could do is look at a character's growth arc and insert something which, along with what we know, might have lead to their big decision/change. Dave Galanter did that in "Troublesome Minds", for instance:

Spoiler: Spock

Spock's vulnerability to Berlis' telepathic powers causes him concern and pushes him along one more step on the road to kohlinahr.

This kind of in-series TOS novel I love, yeah. Not just TOS, either: Anything that takes an episodic work and makes it less serialized is the sort of thing I'm really into, because that doesn't just make for a good story on its own, it also improves the source material at the same time for me, because it recontextualizes it in a way I can better connect to. It provides an import to things that's just normally lacking for me.

 

[Christopher]

My intention isn't to argue over taste, it's to get a better idea of where a person's tastes come from - why @RandyS enjoys what he enjoys - while also laying out where mine come from. I'm not saying mine is correct, I'm just trying to get a better understanding while trying to provide one of me (and anyone that might also be in my spot) at the same time.

I guess it's just that some people are more drawn to novelty and change while others are more comfortable with familiarity and stability. Just compare Greg Cox and myself. He's happy churning out episodic TOS-style tales or standalone installments of any other franchise, whereas I feel limited doing a story that doesn't let me explore change and growth. That's why I've gravitated to parts of the Trek universe that give me room for change, like Titan and DTI and Rise of the Federation, or transitional periods that let me flesh out changes that have already happened, like the post-TMP era of Ex Machina etc., Picard's pre-Enterprise years in The Buried Age, or the period between TOS and TAS where The Face of the Unknown is set.

When I did my X-Men and Spider-Man novels, I couldn't change the characters, so I figured out that I could give them some sense of movement by putting them in situations that forced them to question or stray from their core convictions and then reaffirm them. So they'd be going through a sort of growth process, even if it was a growth back to where they'd already been.

 

[JD]

Just out of curiosity, how many of the people who want books set during the series have read all of the pre-relaunch novels?
I only started reading Trek novels regularly right as the DS9R was starting, so most of what I've read is part of the current Novelverse continuity. So this means when I'm in mood for a series era story, I've literally got hundreds to choose from without taking a spot on the schedule.

 

[Idran]

Just out of curiosity, how many of the people who want books set during the series have read all of the pre-relaunch novels?
I only started reading Trek novels regularly right as the DS9R was starting, so most of what I've read is part of the current Novelverse continuity. So this means when I'm in mood for a series era story, I've literally got hundreds to choose from without taking a spot on the schedule.

While I might not lean towards them myself, I can still see that this isn't really a good alternative. The fact that there are older books out there set during the series doesn't negate the fact that they'd like to see new books during the series. Styles and approaches to Treklit have changed a lot in the last couple decades, even in stand-alones, and a modern in-series novel would legitimately be a different experience than one of the older in-series novels. Not an attack on the older books, just a fact.

Besides, if the situation were reversed suddenly, and people responded to folks saying they'd like to see more post-series novels with "well, did you read all the relaunch novels yet", would that seem like a reasonable resolution?

It'd be like if sci-fi in general were no longer published, and when someone asked for new sci-fi, responding with "there were already 100+ years of sci-fi books printed, why not read those instead?"

 

[20fridge]

I'm a huge fan of the current 24th shared continuity but I'd say there's room for meaningful stories set during the series' time period. Hollow Men, The Sky's the Limit, Distant Shores, and the String Theory trilogy all cover events which have some sort of significance and allow for growth of established characters.

I would also be very excited about an original series set during the TNG/DS9 era. Vanguard really benefited from the connections drawn to TOS episodes and really fleshed out that time period well.

 

[Greg Cox]

^anymore.

@Christopher , @Greg Cox , either of you know whether anyone's even pitching series-set stories to the publisher anymore?

I'm the wrong person to ask since I've been concentrating on standalone TOS adventures for the last few years, mostly as a matter of preference. Although when I did briefly venture into VOYAGER land for No Time Like the Past, I deliberately set the 24th century scenes during the run of the series--in part to avoid stepping on Kirstin Beyer's toes. (And because I wanted to write "classic' Seven of Nine.)

 

[MadeIndescribable]

Pretty sure I read somewhere that this was part of the reason for including the Enterprise D in Headlong Flight.

Hollow Men was released during DS9's initial relaunch, but that was more a specific sequel to In The Pale Moonlight than just another novel.

 

[JD]

While I might not lean towards them myself, I can still see that this isn't really a good alternative. The fact that there are older books out there set during the series doesn't negate the fact that they'd like to see new books during the series. Styles and approaches to Treklit have changed a lot in the last couple decades, even in stand-alones, and a modern in-series novel would legitimately be a different experience than one of the older in-series novels. Not an attack on the older books, just a fact.

I guess, but they'd still be pretty limited in what they can do, so they probably wouldn't be that different from the older books.

Besides, if the situation were reversed suddenly, and people responded to folks saying they'd like to see more post-series novels with "well, did you read all the relaunch novels yet", would that seem like a reasonable resolution?

Yes.

It'd be like if sci-fi in general were no longer published, and when someone asked for new sci-fi, responding with "there were already 100+ years of sci-fi books printed, why not read those instead?"

I don't see the problem with that.

 

[Dayton Ward]

Pretty sure I read somewhere that this was part of the reason for including the Enterprise D in Headlong Flight.

I did it because I wanted to mess with people.

 

[trampledamage]

Feeling nostalgic, I want the crews back where they belong. give me a book from TNG DS9 and VGR that take place during the series that are actually good.

btw - was this a request for book recommendations or a general request the development of the novel-line?

 

[MadeIndescribable]

I did it because I wanted to mess with people.

I'm pretty sure we shouldn't have to pay for books if we're being messed with.

 

[Idran]

I don't see the problem with that.

Okay, let me expand the example. Let's say that fiction just stopped. Literally all fictional works. Movies, books, TV, video games, comics. Everything at all, it's nonfiction or nothing.

Same question. Would it be fair, as a response to people wanting fiction to start being created again, to ask if they engaged in all the fiction that already exists first?

 

[Chancellor M'rek]

btw - was this a request for book recommendations or a general request the development of the novel-line?

a request for a title :-) two pages in i got nothin lol