I think a more green janeway what piller had sounded interesting
- Thread starter TEH BABA
- Start date
Well, RIP-1701, I understand what the poster is getting at. I believe he means they originally wanted Janeway to have the rank of commander but still be captain/c.o. of Voyager. In other words, a less experienced officer. They did that with Sisko on DSN, as the first few years of the series he was a full commander, but since he was in command of a space station, not a ship, they didn't call him captain till he was promoted to that rank.
As you may know, naval tradition calls for anyone in command of a vessel to be called "captain," even if that's not their actual rank. Officers with the rank as low as lieutenant would be in command of smaller ships -- in today's navy, full commanders are often c.o.s of submarines, for example.
Red Ranger
As you may know, naval tradition calls for anyone in command of a vessel to be called "captain," even if that's not their actual rank. Officers with the rank as low as lieutenant would be in command of smaller ships -- in today's navy, full commanders are often c.o.s of submarines, for example.
Red Ranger
It's an interesting idea, one that I wouldn't have minded seeing. But I think there would have been too much outcry about a woman not being good enough to be an actual captain.
Hmm. I wonder if others made the same accusation about Sisko -- hey, he's black, why isn't he good enough to be a captain? -- RR
Indeed they did!
I didn't say I thought so. But I would have been surprised had someone not made such an inane argument.
I don't think it's an inane argument. Being named to head a Star Trek show is a big deal, esp. because of the social/cultural barriers Trek has pushed in the past. So, I can understand why some might feel it's a slight to have the two previous Trek shows headed by white men who are captains, but when a black actor is cast as the lead they are made a subordinate officer. Same for if they had went that way with Janeway.
I'm not saying it was a deliberate slight on the part of TPTB but I can see how it could be perceived as a slight. I think Avery Brooks's surely didn't act subordinate to Picard, in fact in his brief scenes with Patrick Stewart, Brooks came off being his equal, but that doesn't change the fact that he started out rank-wise as not his equal.
I think the rank thing for Sisko was interesting, so it's not that big of a deal for me. It could've been perhaps more interesting to portray a greener Commander or Lt. Commander Janeway as well, particularly if Chakotay had an equal or superior rank before they had left Starfleet.
I'm not saying it was a deliberate slight on the part of TPTB but I can see how it could be perceived as a slight. I think Avery Brooks's surely didn't act subordinate to Picard, in fact in his brief scenes with Patrick Stewart, Brooks came off being his equal, but that doesn't change the fact that he started out rank-wise as not his equal.
I think the rank thing for Sisko was interesting, so it's not that big of a deal for me. It could've been perhaps more interesting to portray a greener Commander or Lt. Commander Janeway as well, particularly if Chakotay had an equal or superior rank before they had left Starfleet.
It's not strictly the same, I know, but the fanfilm Odyssey is exploring this theme - stranded in the Andromeda galaxy, both the Captain and XO were killed, so the chief science officer is in command. It is interesting to see the concept taken in a slightly different direction, but overall, I think Voyager did the right thing of making Janeway a captain.
They could've had Ransom be a Commander of Equinox, I suppose; explore the subject that way, but I've read that he could've been used to replace Kate Mulgrew if she didn't renew her contract at the end of the fifth season.
The only thing you've got to wonder is that why all the other senior officers (barring Kim at Ops) were killed instantly in the pilot
Irony, or convenience?
They could've had Ransom be a Commander of Equinox, I suppose; explore the subject that way, but I've read that he could've been used to replace Kate Mulgrew if she didn't renew her contract at the end of the fifth season.
The only thing you've got to wonder is that why all the other senior officers (barring Kim at Ops) were killed instantly in the pilot
Irony, or convenience?I don't see why they couldn't have Janeway be a captain and say that "Voyager" is her first command. Even Sisko had been in charge of something(Utopia Plantia) before taking command of DS9. Janeway would still be green when it comes to experience so you could still play out the same drama as if she were a commander.
Jason
Jason
hmmm an orion captain. that would have been interesting. maybe just half orion so they can keep the name janeway.
That would have been fine except the network suits were extremely nervous about having a woman accepted as a captain. They probably wanted to establish her as experienced to make her more credible.
Good Will Riker
Admiral
A green commander Janeway would have gone the way of Sarah Palin, unfortunately.
True.
I disagree with that. For one, having a green commander, if well written, could be a compelling character that maybe the audience could relate to, and at least would have a nice character arc that could be explored. She just can't be portrayed as an idiot or a jerk, or someone who is always trumped by her XO or crew.
As for Palin, she lost this round, but that doesn't mean she's out of the game. She's still a Governor and she has a political future if she wants one.
All things being equal that would be true. However, that was not the case. The execs were nervous about a woman captain since rightly or wrongly they believed the Trek demographic they were shooting for would have a problem with that. Remember, this was back in the mid-90s before strong female characters like Starbuck on the new BSG were around.
It might have been interesting if they had gone with no experienced officers (rather than make Janeway a Commander with her first command, make her a lieutenant not expecting to be in charge for years) - but it would have been a major departure. Trek shows are generally led by a very capable leader; even Sisko was shown from the start to have a certain insight that even Dax relied upon.
It would certainly have been different - better or worse is hard to say. A lot depends on the execution - the concept of Janeway was quite good, the execution often left a lot to be desired. (I mean the writing, not the acting.) A different concept could be equally good or better, but it would still depend on the execution to be successful.
It would certainly have been different - better or worse is hard to say. A lot depends on the execution - the concept of Janeway was quite good, the execution often left a lot to be desired. (I mean the writing, not the acting.) A different concept could be equally good or better, but it would still depend on the execution to be successful.
I have always wanted Janeway to have been either a Commander or a Captain on her first mission. It's really boring having the Captains all made from the same mold, experienced know it alls. It would be really great to see a captain MADE as the show goes on, show us how Picard or Kirk got to where they are, rather than wait forty years then do it retrospectively as a prequel...
Sisko was a great exception to that, and it's probably the reason why they didn't make Janeway a commander.
Sisko was a great exception to that, and it's probably the reason why they didn't make Janeway a commander.
A green Captain Janeway, huh...
It was one of those dreams where Chakotay knew he was dreaming. He slid an anachronistic shaving tool across his chin, scraping and scraping but to no avail. It was like his face had been carved from a block of wood.
Steam had fogged the mirror so he reached up to clear it. On the other side of the glass a huge green finger followed the path of his hand, wiping away the condensation. Chakotay stared in horror at what was revealed: a hulkish, green-skinned Captain Janeway, glaring at him like an Orion slave girl on steroids. Before he could react, before he could even scream a massive fist smashed through the glass, seizing Chakotay by the throat.
"PUNY HUMAN!" bellowed Janeway. "WHERE'S MY COFFEE?"
It was one of those dreams where Chakotay knew he was dreaming. He slid an anachronistic shaving tool across his chin, scraping and scraping but to no avail. It was like his face had been carved from a block of wood.
Steam had fogged the mirror so he reached up to clear it. On the other side of the glass a huge green finger followed the path of his hand, wiping away the condensation. Chakotay stared in horror at what was revealed: a hulkish, green-skinned Captain Janeway, glaring at him like an Orion slave girl on steroids. Before he could react, before he could even scream a massive fist smashed through the glass, seizing Chakotay by the throat.
"PUNY HUMAN!" bellowed Janeway. "WHERE'S MY COFFEE?"
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