I Stand With...

[Professor Zoom]

Punitive as in too severe is my position which is not the same as thinking it's OK.

How would copyright protections work if they weren't punitive?

Too much power are in hands of the media cartels who have in turn too much power over the legislature. I've no problem people defending their property or their work or people getting a hit that they'll know about if they do steal.

Copyright and the power of media cartels are separate things--in so much as they exist. (Obviously, the extensions were pushed a long by media lobbyists.) But, anyone can get a copyright for the work that they create.

I'm very unclear what your position is, other than Media companies are bad.

Copyright is too long. I'd be quite content actually if they limited it but even that goes against the prevailing climate.

Copyright is limited. It does expire. Now, does it go to long? Perhaps.

 

[USS Triumphant]

I started to post this as a comment here, but decided to make it its own thread to try not to derail things here.

Alternate System for US Copyright

 

[Amaris]

Because vote for Axanar is voting for a fanfilm Production.

Not really. You can support CBS's right to smack down Axanar while at the same time support fan films.

This. I want CBS to smack the shit out of Alec Peters, but I really can't wait to see the next Star Trek Continues, New Voyages, or Renegades. In fact, I'm particularly looking forward to Renegades, because while I didn't like their first outing, having seen what they're doing to fix those issues gives me hope. Plus, they really are a bunch of good guys.

I also can't wait for the next episode of Starship Excelsior, though I imagine since they're an audio drama, they're not exactly under heavy fire from all of this, which works out to their benefit, and by proxy mine as well! *tee hee*

 

[Squiggy]

Morally big studio are money making Ferengi. They're not vulnerable shrinking violets and it's difficult to muster sympathy for them even if they are in the right in particular instances. Nor am a fan of copyright law that's gotten a bit too punitive in my view.

However, whilst I stand with Axanar, a part of "standing with Axanar" is giving them tough truths, so I urge them to relent before the big studio juggernaut which has the potential to wreck lives in a very real way. It's just not that important.

Say, your wife is attractive. You put a lot of time and energy into dating and eventually marrying her.

But, all the guys in the neighborhood wanna have a go at her. She belongs to all of us now. It's only fair.

 

[Goji]

That kind of... only makes sense if Star Trek, the intellectual property, is capable of deciding who it wants making it.

Of if women... can't.

Anyway, CBS is clearly right. But I stand with no one. NO ONE.

 

[Squiggy]

The point is you can't change the rules mid-game simply because you really want it or because most people in a Facebook group want it. Laws don't work that way. Copyright was specifically set up to protect the owner or creator of something popular from people who were not involved with the creation to profit from it.

Want to profit from it? All you need is permission! Not willing to get permission? Then you're not the sort of person who "deserves" anything.

Also, arguing for a change of copyright laws on the back of this debacle? Shyeah. Good luck with hitching yourself to that horse.

 

[dub]

Let's say I own a beloved historic home that's been fully furnished and stocked. Some folks who have enjoyed seeing the house for decades, they really like it, and they would love to live there. They decide to walk in, check the place out, maybe spend the night. Then they ask people in the community for money to put an addition on the house in exchange for stopping by for a party when it's done. Well, as the owner, I've been aware that they're staying at the house I own. And I've been fine with that. No harm done. They enjoy the house and it's not hurting me for them to stay there. No big deal. But if they're going to raise money to build an addition on the house without asking my permission...now there's a problem. So I decide to have a little talk with them. But they start telling everybody that I can't tell them what to do. So they keep planning their addition and maybe get the frame up. All the while, they're telling their friends that they could make the entire house look better than it ever has. Um...it's my house. I may not have personally built the house. I may not have even decorated the house. It's a beautiful historic home. People love it. But it's my house. I own it. Sorry, I've looked the other way, but now it's time to call the police. And hey, I doubt they will, but maybe if they talk to me nicely I'll consider dropping the charges. Worst case scenario, they get a slap on the wrist. But then, guess what happens...they start telling people that the addition they were putting on my home, on my property, is theirs. What's more, they promise their donors that they'll still build the addition, and still have the party. Then, they start acting like the home itself is theirs! Then...they start trash talking me! Me, the guy who let them play around in the house I own! Not only that, but they ask their donors to put up signs in their yards to let people know how awful I am. Wow! Dude...it's my house. The addition might have been cool, who knows. But, you know...maybe it would have been smarter for them to just, I don't know, build their own house!?!?

 

[Noname Given]

The point is you can't change the rules mid-game simply because you really want it or because most people in a Facebook group want it. Laws don't work that way. Copyright was specifically set up to protect the owner or creator of something popular from people who were not involved with the creation to profit from it.

Want to profit from it? All you need is permission! Not willing to get permission? Then you're not the sort of person who "deserves" anything.

Also, arguing for a change of copyright laws on the back of this debacle? Shyeah. Good luck with hitching yourself to that horse.

Here's the other thing people not familiar with how thw law works do not understand: EVEN IF all this resulted in a change in copyright law; Axanar is STILL SCREWED because such a new law ISN'T retroactive.

What that means:
- Any production started AFTER the date the new copyright laws went into effect is affected by the new law.

- Any production started (or sued) PRIOR to the date the law is changed IS STILL under the jurisdiction of the law in effect at that time.

TLDR - Any copyright law change will not have an effect on the current lawsuit against Axanar Productions. Period.

 

[Amaris]

Let's say I own a beloved historic home that's been fully furnished and stocked. Some folks who have enjoyed seeing the house for decades, they really like it, and they would love to live there. They decide to walk in, check the place out, maybe spend the night. Then they ask people in the community for money to put an addition on the house in exchange for stopping by for a party when it's done. Well, as the owner, I've been aware that they're staying at the house I own. And I've been fine with that. No harm done. They enjoy the house and it's not hurting me for them to stay there. No big deal. But if they're going to raise money to build an addition on the house without asking my permission...now there's a problem. So I decide to have a little talk with them. But they start telling everybody that I can't tell them what to do. So they keep planning their addition and maybe get the frame up. All the while, they're telling their friends that they could make the entire house look better than it ever has. Um...it's my house. I may not have personally built the house. I may not have even decorated the house. It's a beautiful historic home. People love it. But it's my house. I own it. Sorry, I've looked the other way, but now it's time to call the police. And hey, I doubt they will, but maybe if they talk to me nicely I'll consider dropping the charges. Worst case scenario, they get a slap on the wrist. But then, guess what happens...they start telling people that the addition they were putting on my home, on my property, is theirs. What's more, they promise their donors that they'll still build the addition, and still have the party. Then, they start acting like the home itself is theirs! Then...they start trash talking me! Me, the guy who let them play around in the house I own! Not only that, but they ask their donors to put up signs in their yards to let people know how awful I am. Wow! Dude...it's my house. The addition might have been cool, who knows. But, you know...maybe it would have been smarter for them to just, I don't know, build their own house!?!?

FYI: I read this in the voice of Odo, and it was awesome.

 

[seigezunt]

I ended up voting neutral because there is still a part of me that would like to see Axanar made. I liked the trailer, especially the space effects which looked pretty inspired by the recent Abrams movies.

But I've read the lawsuit and I just don't see how they have a legal leg to stand on at this point. CBS has a case, but hopefully this won't inspire it to go after the more benign productions.

 

[Tom]

#istandwithfanfilms

 

[BillJ]

I think the people who stand with fan films seriously need to take a step back and decide if what some are doing really qualifies as fan films. Especially Axanar and Renegades.

 

[lurok]

#IStandWithFanFilms(thatarefanfilms)

 

[Tom]

That tag is for all fan films (well, maybe not Axanar now) showing support for them.

ok, how about #iamforcbsandfanfilms

 

[BillJ]

That tag is for all fan films (well, maybe not Axanar now) showing support for them.

I simply don't see Axanar or Renegades as fan films. That boat left long ago.

 

[seigezunt]

#IStandWithStarTrek

 

[Maurice]

That tag is for all fan films (well, maybe not Axanar now) showing support for them.

I simply don't see Axanar or Renegades as fan films. That boat left long ago.

I kinda feel the same way. With all respect to Tom, who is a good guy, I think Renegades toes the line that Axanar ran roughshod across when they should have stayed a few steps back from it.

 

[ancient]

Oh man, I found out about this project from a blog I follow that interviewed the leader of this. It looked great, but some of the stuff coming out of that guy's mouth was a bit alarming. He kept saying things like "This the direction the franchise will go" "this is Star Trek's new home" and stuff like that. That's a red flag, but I can see why people would be drawn in by a forceful personality like that.

I voted neutral, CBS doesn't need my help & I don't care strongly about fan projects. This isn't a moral issue though, companies like CBS are neither moral nor immoral, they're amoral. They follow the law & make profits.

 

[tomalak301]

It's amazing the difference of opinion from Facebook to here. Facebook it's like how dare CBS treat the fans this way and that we're entitled to have Star Trek done well. Here it's a little more on legal footing and taking a step back and understanding why CBS is doing what it's doing. CBS doesn't owe the fans anything, and Star Trek will always be their property. It's not ours. We enjoy it because CBS trademarked it and they can do whatever they want with it.

I respect Peters for wanting to do a Star Trek film, but the entitlement I've been reading from both the people involved in Axanar to the fans is insane. I stand with CBS on this issue simply because it is their franchise. We may not like where the franchise is going, but we still don't own it. Also, I'm seeing all these films asking for money and you know what sites like Kickstarter and GoFundMe are? They're an internet form of telemarketing, to which I say, leave me alone.

 

[tomalak301]

I Stand With... the original length of copyright in law: 20 years, in which case Star Trek would be public domain. I *might* could see 30 years because life spans are longer than they were when the US was founded, but the duration has gotten completely absurd.

That said, I voted CBS, because what I've outlined above isn't the current legal reality, and under that current reality, CBS is 100% in the right, plus, I believe there's some other shady stuff going on behind the scenes with Axanar.

I have a question regarding your first point. When CBS and Paramount split (Paramount doing the movies and CBS doing the shows), wasn't that like resetting the copyright clock? It hasn't been another 20 years yet.