I preferred the Prime timeline.

[Phoenix219]

Spock and the Nerada both, one after the other, went into a red hole, and shat on Jim Kirk's birth.

If the Nerada changed time so much (Nix Vulcan) that a future where prime Spock and the prime Nerada are pushing with their shoulders to head into the past, then the ship second in line would have vanished as the prime timeline was over written, and could not have followed the other one into the kelvin timeline.

Just for a minute, maybe it was Spock going in second, existed in the prime time line, after Nero created the Kelvin timeline.

My guess is that the Kelvin timeline was one of those already-existing universes - like with Defiant and the Mirror, they traveled back while shifting over.

Alternatively, being within the realm of the event that is enacting the rewrite, there may have been a delay or a protection involved by being within the events gravity/EM field/something sci fi. Until the Kelvin-verse gives me a definitive ending/reset button restoring the Prime, I'm going to go with "always existing alternate."

This is all my personal choices and perspectives, of course. To each our own.

 

[fireproof78]

Trek canon in like 80% of cases is straight timeline rewrite. Kelvinverse is most likely one of those pre-existing alternates like the Mirror and wherever Lazurus came from. Its not made explicitly clear onscreen that the time travel created an alternate universe and not a rewrite. I'm not convinced that Parallels aren't just quantum possibilities made solid temporarily. Its the only episode that gives credence to the idea that there are literally physically infinite universes encapsulating every single possible choice every single possible random event/choice in the universe creates.

That doesn't make it less canon or an option for the writers to explore. The other 20% of time travel stories are just as valid. You also have a variety of different events, like temporal loops (TNG), aliens putting Harry Kim into the "wrong" timeline (but close enough), as well as being able to go back and change the future in various odd ways (VOY was rather notorious for that).

Now, that said, we don't see the usual time travel shenanigan effects like we have in time travel rewrites (i.e. missing crewmembers, declarations "this isn't right," efforts to "fix" it). Now, I'm not the smartest guy in the room, but Spock usually is, and is usually the guy to go "We need to do X" in order to fix it. Since he didn't, then it must be one of the random 20% of the times were either a) a new quantum reality was created because of a red matter wormhole or b) Original Spock jumped from one quantum reality to another as well as traveling in time, as demonstrated as a possibility by both the Discovery and the Defiant.

Regardless, canon status aside, CBS is treating the Picard show as the 24th century we know from TNG forward, so one must at least look at it from that POV, which means that the 24th century timeline is as destroyed as my TOS DVDs after Abrams' films came out-that is to say, it isn't.

 

[F. King Daniel]

as presented in the bulk if the Trek canon

The minute you say "the bulk of", you're picking and choosing.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Assignment Earth and Star Trek IV.

Kirk's original Enterprise, and Kirk's HMS Bounty in an attempt to go home from the past, are both going to land in the Kelvin Universe, and wonder where they are, and what went wrong.

 

[Mudd]

I still can't wrap my head around how "canon" came to mean "visual continuity" in Star Trek,

Because "canon" includes everything in studio-produced Star Trek whether it's contradictory or not.

 

[Nyotarules]

My guess is that the Kelvin timeline was one of those already-existing universes - like with Defiant and the Mirror, they traveled back while shifting over.

Its a good reason for the changes to Chekhov and Uhura's birthdate

 

[Guy Gardener]

Its a good reason for the changes to Chekhov and Uhura's birthdate

Hundreds of millions of racing sperm racing.

 

[Nyotarules]

Hundreds of millions of racing sperm racing.

And Kelvin Pike looks older cos he never met Vina or his dad had radiated sperm?

 

[Guy Gardener]

Radiated sperm or Irradiated sperm?

 

[Dukhat]

Its a good reason for the changes to Chekhov and Uhura's birthdate

Chekov doesn’t count: both prime Chekov and nuChekov were born after 2233. So thanks to Nero’s incursion and the timeline changing after that point, nuChekov is probably not even the same person biologically as prime Chekov (which explains why they look so different from each other and why nuChekov is a whiz kid a la Wesley Crusher while prime Chekov isn’t.)

Were the Uhuras both born after 2233 as well? If so, the same logic applies, as I don’t think she’s older than Kirk.

 

[Nyotarules]

Chekov doesn’t count: both prime Chekov and nuChekov were born after 2233. So thanks to Nero’s incursion and the timeline changing after that point, nuChekov is probably not even the same person biologically as prime Chekov (which explains why they look so different from each other and why nuChekov is a whiz kid a la Wesley Crusher while prime Chekov isn’t.)

Were the Uhuras both born after 2233 as well? If so, the same logic applies, as I don’t think she’s older than Kirk.

The Prime year of Uhura's birth was 2239 and for Chekov 2245, the Kelvin Uhura 2233 and Chekov 2241. They had a 17 year old soldier in combat just to get the character in the film! They should just make them all older and already serving in Starfleet. Nero's incursion gave Kirk and McCoy extra height, changed their eye colour and seemingly changed Sulu's sexuality. What power!

 

[F. King Daniel]

They had a 17 year old soldier in combat just to get the character in the film

Yeah, it sucked when they did that in 1987 with Wesley.

 

[Nyotarules]

Yeah, it sucked when they did that in 1987 with Wesley.

But by then the Enterprise was a cruise ship and as Picard kept insisting they were explorers not soldiers...right?

 

[F. King Daniel]

But by then the Enterprise was a cruise ship and as Picard kept insisting they were explorers not soldiers...right?

"I thought we were explorers!"

-Scotty, Star Trek Into Darkness

 

[fireproof78]

which explains why they look so different from each other and why nuChekov is a whiz kid a la Wesley Crusher while prime Chekov isn’t

Though, this is something I found interesting that got pointed out in a commentary I listened to. Chekov is often assigned to the Science station when Spock is not available. So, he may not be "whiz kid" material but it isn't completely unprecedented either.

But by then the Enterprise was a cruise ship and as Picard kept insisting they were explorers not soldiers...right?

They said the same thing in the Kelvin films too. Pike in 2009 stating "it's a humanitarian and peacekeeping armada" and Scotty arguing with Kirk about the torpedoes in ST ID.

 

[Nyotarules]

"I thought we were explorers!"

-Scotty, Star Trek Into Darkness

They said the same thing in the Kelvin films too. Pike in 2009 stating "it's a humanitarian and peacekeeping armada" and Scotty arguing with Kirk about the torpedoes in ST ID.

The recruitment officer told a pack of lies..hello Alex Marcus! 'Humanitarian' the very notion is racist!

 

[Sci]

I'll take your word for it that Roddenberry "de canonising" TAS would have legally required alterations to existing works,

But I did not say that. What I did say was that works would need to conform to the I.P. owner's requirements. It's not that they'd go and pull existing copies of something from the shelves. (In fact, if a licensed work is submitted to the I.P. owner, passes inspection, goes on sale, and then the I.P. owner decides they don't like something in it, I'd bet good money the contract protects the licensee from having to scrap the issue since they submitted the work to the I.P. owner for inspection in good faith.) It's that future installments would reflect the I.P. owner's requirements. So it's not that DC Comics would have had to pull issues that featured M'Ress from stores; but I am saying that the next issue would have had to get rid of M'Ress.

"Canon" is, as you say, merely that which is part of the commercial package. Any other use of the term is a misuse and those misuses are indeed commonplace amongst the fandom.

Yep.

I don't believe in time travel creating dual paths; I believe timelines are rewritten, and alt. univereses are just that; other universes that always existed.

I fundamentally disagree with this being how timelines work; I don't believe that an "alternate choice" would make a physically new, physically solid *universe* out there with duplicates of everything and anything, onward to infinity. I refuse to believe that is even feasible.

The lovely thing about time travel is that because it is not real and is not possible, it works however the writers want it to work.

Chekov doesn’t count: both prime Chekov and nuChekov were born after 2233. So thanks to Nero’s incursion and the timeline changing after that point, nuChekov is probably not even the same person biologically as prime Chekov (which explains why they look so different from each other and why nuChekov is a whiz kid a la Wesley Crusher while prime Chekov isn’t.)

I figure Chekov was conceived using in vitro fertilization using preserved ova and sperm cells from his parents. That way, if his parents choose to begin the pregnancy in 2241 in one timeline and 2245 in another, it doesn't matter much and he's biologically the same guy.

Nero's incursion gave Kirk and McCoy extra height, changed their eye colour and seemingly changed Sulu's sexuality.

I see no reason to think Prime!Sulu and Kelvin!Sulu have different sexual orientations.

 

[Guy Gardener]

John Cho says that he played gay in Beyond, but there is no evidence on screen to prove that.

George Takei says that he played straight in TOS, but there is no evidence on screen to prove it... Anyone can have a child, shut up.

 

[Spot261]

I see no reason to think Prime!Sulu and Kelvin!Sulu have different sexual orientations.

I don't recall any specific events to indicate Sulu being straight in TOS.

To be honest I genuinely tended to see Sulu as gay long before Beyond or even the reboots, but that was just me.

 

[Phoenix219]

If Takei says he played it with a certain intent, and that Roddenberry had a certain intent, then that is the benchmark for me, personally.