"I like the new movie better..."

[Pauln6]

ST09 wasn't the only way to do a new Trek film. But it was the easiest way. The fact that it made a lot of money doesn't wash away its failings.

I'm not even sure it was the easiest way but it was a successful attempt to appeal to the most common denominator.

Those of us who would have preferred a slightly different movie also have to concede that its failings don't prevent it being an enjoyable movie for most people, including some who noticed and were irked by those failings.

 

[JarodRussell]

The thing is that those who like this movie would have liked the same movie with less flaws, too.
Would the lovers really be upset if Kirk met Spock not relying on a ridiculous coincidence, for example?
Would they have left the theater if Romulus was not destroyed by a physics deying FTL supernova threating the entire galaxy but by something more thought through?
Would they really hate the movie if the warp nacelles were glowing red (winning over another thousand of hard core nerds)?
Would they really dislike it had there been less shaky cam or lens flares?
Seriously, both sides "would have winned".

 

[Squiggy]

Are you speaking in the royal We? Or are you speaking for all five of the people here who bitch about every new thing?

I can accept people not liking something. What I don't understand is why those people have to continually hang around and troll the fans of the thing they supposedly couldn't care less about. That makes no sense to me.

Translation: I'm burned that there are people who won't surrender to the groupthink and mindlessly praise JJ Trek as the fount of all things good and wonderful.

Or...and here's a thought that may just blow your mind...

We liked it.

I know. Shocking right? A Star Trek movie that made hundreds of millions of dollars might just have one or two legitimate fans on a message board dedicated to Star Trek. Will wonders never cease?!

 

[ST-One]

ST09 wasn't the only way to do a new Trek film. But it was the easiest way. The fact that it made a lot of money doesn't wash away its failings.

I'm not even sure it was the easiest way but it was a successful attempt to appeal to the most common denominator.

Ah, the 'unwashed masses' again?

Why don't you tell us what would have made a better movie?

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Why don't you tell us what would have made a better movie?

Please - do we need to read one more fannish indulgence chock full of nuggets like "After the Dominion War..." or "United Earth Probe Agency?"

Frankly, pandering to old-line Trekkies these days is treading about as close to a lowest-common denominator approach to filmmaking as you can get. It's about checking off a lot of little boxes and then loading the whole thing up with pomposity.

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCaGQe9ieKA[/yt]

"I think the bigger issue is that fans felt like Star Trek belonged to them, and now the studio has turned it into something that people will actually like."

The Onion nailed it.

 

[ProwlAlpha]

I, thirdly, call out a basher who can make suggestions that the movie would be better. In all honesty, I don't have high hopes.

 

[ST-One]

Why don't you tell us what would have made a better movie?

Please - do we need to read one more fannish indulgence chock full of nuggets like "After the Dominion War..." or "United Earth Probe Agency?"

Frankly, pandering to old-line Trekkies these days is treading about as close to a lowest-common denominator approach to filmmaking as you can get. It's about checking off a lot of little boxes and then loading the whole thing up with pomposity.

Well, I asked them to tell us what would've made a better movie

"I think the bigger issue is that fans felt like Star Trek belonged to them, and now the studio has turned it into something that people will actually like."

The Onion nailed it.

Yep.
This clip is so full of truth...

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

The other thing is - I don't care much what someone on a BBS claims "would make a better movie." This kind of armchair quarterbacking has bupkis to do with actually making a movie of any kind. Whether negative or positive, it's all bar room droning.

 

[ST-One]

The other thing is - I don't care much what someone on a BBS claims "would make a better movie." This kind of armchair quarterbacking has bupkis to do with actually making a movie of any kind. Whether negative or positive, it's all bar room droning.

Yeah, but it gets the time passed when your boyfriend isn't home yet, the book you are reading bores you and you can't be arsed to fire up Lightwave

 

[JarodRussell]

People still asking what would have made for a better movie after hundreds of threads discussing its weaknesses in detail is the reason why those threads don't stop, I guess.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

People still asking what would have made for a better movie ...

Well, some people still think that "put your money where your mouth is" is a challenge that the critics will rise to.

I know better.

Usually, they won't and can't - not because they have no ideas (no matter how lame) but because they're afraid. They know that anything creative that they expose to the criticism of strangers might be savaged in the same way that they treat other peoples work.

We've had one or two former members run screaming from this board like children because they couldn't take the heat of criticism for their works of staggering genius.

One of the differences between folks who are actually able to do this kind of work and armchair critics is that creators have the necessary courage to go public.

 

[JarodRussell]

People still asking what would have made for a better movie ...

Well, some people still think that "put your money where your mouth is" is a challenge that the critics will rise to.

I know better.

Usually, they won't and can't - not because they have no ideas (no matter how lame) but because they're afraid. They know that anything creative that they expose to the criticism of strangers might be savaged in the same way that they treat other peoples work.

We've had one or two former members run screaming from this board because they couldn't take the heat.

One of the differences between folks who are actually able to do this kind of work and armchair critics is that creators have the necessary courage to go public.

I think most simply don't do it because a) they know that certain people are going to criticize it no matter what and b) because it's pointless because a written idea has no pull against the final result that people have already seen in theaters.

And when someone asks "How could it have been a better movie" then he's implying that the movie is already totally flawless, which is ridiculous. So a discussion with that premise is pretty pointless, too, I think.


I already asked if people who liked the movie would have been upset had they changed a couple of bits that some are heavily criticizing. Nobody replied to that, no?

 

[ST-One]

And when someone asks "How could it have been a better movie" then he's implying that the movie is already totally flawless, which is ridiculous. So a discussion with that premise is pretty pointless, too, I think.

No, wrong again.
You're on quite the negative roll, aren't you?

I already asked if people who liked the movie would have been upset had they changed a couple of bits that some are heavily criticizing. Nobody replied to that, no?

Change what, for what?

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

So, I wracked myself up pretty badly in the gym this summer, probably trying to prove that I'm much younger than I am. Here I am in my declining years, and I have my very first sports injury, if you can call it that.

The doc pronounced it tendonitis and is making me stay away from the gym, wear an arm brace, and - oh, yeah, do curls with two-pound weights.

That last is quite a comedown, but it's more challenging than this debate.

 

[JarodRussell]

No, wrong again.

Heh, Devon, is that you?

Change what, for what?

Are you really not willing to look back just a couple of posts?

 

[Devon]

ST09 wasn't the only way to do a new Trek film. But it was the easiest way. The fact that it made a lot of money doesn't wash away its failings.

The only "failings" exist in the eyes of a few who feel the film didn't meet certain expectations, whether reasonable or unreasonable. In other words, any failings it has are subjective, and every film has failings in the eyes of someone. There is no "fact" that it has failings, oh, other than the toy line maybe.

 

[Warped9]

"Failings" or "flaws" it comes to the same thing. And even many of its fans admit the film has them. It's just a matter of degree.

 

[Shatnertage]

^^^I haven't heard anyone argue that the movie is flawless. I enjoyed the movie, but there are certainly some elements I could have done without. The thing is, that's pretty much the same for just about everything I see on TV or read. And part of life, if I can get sententious for a moment, is accepting that much of the universe is beyond your control.

I'm not personally offended that the producers didn't seek out my input in making the new film, nor am I dismayed that the film they made was stylistically different from past Star Trek.

I watched the movie, and I liked it. Yes, there were plot holes, but they didn't diminish my liking the movie, just like the numerous plot holes in TWoK don't take away from Spock's death scene or my overall enjoyment of the movie. Same for more TOS episodes than I can list.

I don't expect this to make anyone change their minds about what they find aesthetically pleasing, but hopefully it'll give you some insight into where I'm coming from.

I like hearing from those who disliked the movie, because it's nice to know that I'm not nearly as curmudgeonly as I feel sometimes. And their criticisms of the movie make me think more seriously about just what I find appealing in it.

 

[Warped9]

I like hearing from those who disliked the movie, because it's nice to know that I'm not nearly as curmudgeonly as I feel sometimes. And their criticisms of the movie make me think more seriously about just what I find appealing in it.

A good point. I have felt the same about valid criticisms of things I've liked.

 

[Devon]

"Failings" or "flaws" it comes to the same thing. And even many of its fans admit the film has them. It's just a matter of degree.

That goes for any film. I don't believe anyone said it was flawless.