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"I like the new movie better..."

Spock stood up to the Vulcan Science Academy as a teenager.
Because he'd had enough trying to fit in on Vulcan and wanted out.
his girlfriend
She was right. Spock was wrong to re-assign her to the Farragut in the first place.
Spock gave in to Kirk at the end.
You mean, he realized Kirk was right. Doing the human thing (fighting Nero) actually had a better chance to save Earth than the Vulcan "follow orders to the letter" option. Yet you see it as a faliure? :wtf:
Spock gave in to Spock Prime and went back to serve under Kirk.
Spock Prime says to Spock, "Do what feels right" and you make it into a submission? :lol:
What acceptance was there?
Spock accepted himself for who he was. After living his life trying to be a pure Vulcan, despite repeated rejection by his own people, he realized that he has to be the person he is, not what others want him to be.

I guess it all went over your head :shrug:
 
You mean, he realized Kirk was right. Doing the human thing (fighting Nero) actually had a better chance to save Earth than the Vulcan "follow orders to the letter" option. Yet you see it as a faliure? :wtf:

Actually they were both wrong. Neither option was very promising but it's crazy to say that Kirk was right. His plan was riddled with holes, and astoundingly risky. It only succeeded because the writers 'forgot' a lot of obvious defences (like the Narada's shields) that could have thwarted it and because Kirk and Spock basically were allowed to get away with it for the sake of the narrative. The plan was otherwise terrible, including the fact that any stage the Narada could (and should) have been able to outdistance the Enterprise and reach Earth days if not weeks ahead of them.
 
Spock's "plan" would have guanteed Earth's destruction. Anything at all would have been better.

I don't recall the movie mentioning at any point that Nerada had traditional transporter-blocking shields.
 
Spock's "plan" would have guanteed Earth's destruction. Anything at all would have been better.

I don't recall the movie mentioning at any point that Nerada had traditional transporter-blocking shields.

Which is, as I say, an oversight on the part of the writers. Clearly a 24th century (Borg-enhanced) vessel armed to the teeth with weapons that can take on 40+ battleships in combat is going to have shields.

I suppose Spock could have hacked into the Narada's systems while he was a prisoner and obtained details of her shield harmonics. It's confusing technobabble though but he still could have handed Kirk a chip and said, 'This will allow you to bypass the Narada's shields'. The only reason Earth wasn't destroyed as it stands was due to dumb writing.
 
It was sure fortunate that Kirk didn't have the plot to contend with. Of course, everyone else was, for the most part, set dressing for Kirk. He was the hero. He HAD to win. So everyone else had to be inferior, despite what made sense.

Don't apply for the Academy, let Pike do it for you.
Don't actually figure out how to reprogram the simulator, let Gaila do it.
Have McCoy sneak you on board using a ridiculous comedy bit.
Have Pike, rather than throw you in the brig for stowing away, make you first officer.
Have Sulu forget the parking brake, thus saving everyones life. Too bad all those other ships had competent helmsmen.
Have Sulu take out the Romulans on the drill and then have to be saved so you can save his life, and actually give you a reason for being on the drill in the first place instead.
Have Spock beam down to save the council instead of trying to save other Vulcans. As a bonus, Spock gets to see his mother die so you can use that against him later.
Have Spock stupidly desert you on a hostile planet so you can meet up with Spock Prime and Scotty in a coincidence so big it should have created another black hole.
Have Spock Prime use something that we never saw Scotty use in order to get you back on the ship. As a bonus, take Scotty along for no good reason rather than Spock Prime who could actually explain everything that's going on.
Take full advantage of the loss of Spocks mother to seize control of the ship, effectively committing mutiny.
Come up with a plan that consists of sending exactly two people, who just happen to be the two people that have been in command of the ship, instead of a squad of security.
Don't bother to finish at the Academy, Pike will just bump you up to Captain and give you a ship.

Remind me, what exactly did Kirk actually do? The only reason he won was because everyone else was shown to be wrong, regardless of the logic of the situation.
 
Kirk was the hero of a film that seemingly gives kkozoriz1 sleepless nights.

Which is, as I say, an oversight on the part of the writers. Clearly a 24th century (Borg-enhanced) vessel armed to the teeth with weapons that can take on 40+ battleships in combat is going to have shields.

I suppose Spock could have hacked into the Narada's systems while he was a prisoner and obtained details of her shield harmonics. It's confusing technobabble though but he still could have handed Kirk a chip and said, 'This will allow you to bypass the Narada's shields'. The only reason Earth wasn't destroyed as it stands was due to dumb writing.

There was nothing traditional about Nerada at all. Why assume traditional shields? And even if you go with Countdown's Borg tech idea, the Borg don't use traditional shields, either. Borg transport inhibitors appear to be seperate from their defensive subspace field.
 
.
Don't actually figure out how to reprogram the simulator, let Gaila do it.

What? :wtf:

Um, Gaila didn't reprogram the simulator she just opened the e-mail Kirk sent her which then loaded Kirk's subroutine (which she didn't know was in said e-mail) into the simulator causing the simulation to be reprogramed. Also that was a deleted scene as in not part of the movie anymore.

Come up with a plan that consists of sending exactly two people, who just happen to be the two people that have been in command of the ship, instead of a squad of security.

Well that's what Kirk and Spock have basically been doing for oh about 43 years now and it still seems to work you must have them confused with the guys from TNG though Picard tends to do that too and usually going alone.
 
I have a friend or two who liked the new movie better than the others...except "the one with the whales." One of those friends prefers TNG anyway and her husband is all about Star Wars. The others either liked it while liking previous films or liked it without ever seeing Trek before. Whatever my opinion of the film itself, it was one of the few movies to do that.
 
.
Don't actually figure out how to reprogram the simulator, let Gaila do it.

What? :wtf:

Um, Gaila didn't reprogram the simulator she just opened the e-mail Kirk sent her which then loaded Kirk's subroutine (which she didn't know was in said e-mail) into the simulator causing the simulation to be reprogramed. Also that was a deleted scene as in not part of the movie anymore.

I should have phrased it better. From Memory Alpha:

"A deleted scene reveals that he was dating Uhura's roommate, Gaila, for the express purpose of gaining access to the computer, as she was a technician at the time."

From a post by Christopher in the topic "Should novels set in the JJVerse rectify the film's plot holes?"

No, according to a cut line, Gaila talked in her sleep, and Kirk was thus able to get the access codes from her.

So he didn't actually hack it himself. He used her access and just had the system basically shut down. The e-mail used her own access codes to implant Kirk's cheat code while pointing the finger of blame at Gaila. Nice guy.
 
I'm careful to use "if"s when I mention non-canon, take-it-or-leave-it stuff. I don't treat it the same as the canon movie.
 
There was nothing traditional about Nerada at all. Why assume traditional shields? And even if you go with Countdown's Borg tech idea, the Borg don't use traditional shields, either. Borg transport inhibitors appear to be seperate from their defensive subspace field.

It's a slippery slope. For Kirk's plan to work the Narada must never exceed warp 4 and yet (even ignoring possible Borginess) it is never stated that the ship's propulsion has been damaged. We know they travelled slow to give them time to interrogate Pike but even so, Kirk is so lucky that they didn't decide to travel at a standard cruising speed of Warp 6, which is still plenty slow enough to do what needs to be done (warp 4 is just embarassing - even Archer could travel that fast).

It would take days to reach Earth from Vulcan at low warp. This is never stated but it takes minutes at high warp and it must take proportionately longer at lower warp. Faster ships can beat the Narada to Earth from further away. It is never stated that there are no ships at all within several days' travel of Earth (although we all know there never are), only that the fleet is away. It would have been more logical to send encrypted signals to ships within range to beat the Narada to Earth at high warp and carry out Kirk's plan. In failing to do so Kirk takes a huge risk that the Narada will not speed up largely due to his ego. We have to assume they tried to contact other ships and there are none. We also have to assume that there is some reason why the can't signal the fleet (or at least start the process by sending a message to a subspace relay) using their long range communications or the communications array on Delta Vega since nobody attempts to do so on camera.

For Kirk's plan to work, the Narada, in spite of its superior technology must have no shields raised, and be incapable of detecting both an incoming scan from the Enterprise, and an incoming transport. TOS tech might be this lame but 24th century has this stuff as standard.

If either Kirk or Spock is captured or killed, the plan fails. Neither Kirk nor Spock reads Romulan but Spock claims he can blag it, which I'm sure is a risk you'd want to take with a whole planet at stake. Oh wait, that's right, Kirk was originally going in on his own until Spock volunteered...

They make a similar mistake to Troi in her TNG exam. Cannon fodder should be sacrificed to save a planet. A security team should have been beamed in to take the bridge at the same time as the incursion below decks. They might succeed, they might be cut to pieces, or they could detonate explosives to take out the bridge and slow the ship down. Wasting their window to beam in only two crew was bonkers. Fair enough if something goes wrong with that plan leading to the situation we saw. But for that to be the plan all along...

Uhura or someone who can speak Romulan should have been included witht the incursion team, as should someone medically trained in case Pike needed assistance. A security escort should also have beamed in with them. A shame that Uhura and Chapel could have been given some action there.

All the crew should be willing to die to save Earth. Kirk's plan is on par with Troi. Do it all himself and hope it might work. I hope they smarten up these elemetns in the next one.
 
Makes you wonder why Abrams decided to make the ship so much bigger with a much larger crew if none of them were needed for anything. The only time security seemed to do anything was hassling Kirk. Scotty became Chief Engineer despite not being assigned to the ship. I guess all the other engineers were inadequate. McCoy helped Kirk with his comedy act and faded into the background. Sulu was the best choice to go on the drill mission for his combat skills despite there being security types aboard. Chekov was the only one who could save Kirk & Sulu with the transporter despite there being people trained specifically on that piece of equipment, to say nothing of abandoning his post on the bridge.
 
Sometimes I wonder if some people's idea of a perfect Star Trek film is two hours of technical data scrolling up the screen.

We all know STXI's flaws, but no matter how many times you all repeat them, exactly how many people change their minds about it? None. You either liked the film or not.

The fans who like STXI happily ignore or explain away the issues the film has, just the same as they have for the previous 10 films and 700 episodes.
 
Sometimes I wonder if some people's idea of a perfect Star Trek film is two hours of technical data scrolling up the screen.

We all know STXI's flaws, but no matter how many times you all repeat them, exactly how many people change their minds about it? None. You either liked the film or not.

The fans who like STXI happily ignore or explain away the issues the film has, just the same as they have for the previous 10 films and 700 episodes.

Yes, happily ignore the dumbing down of Trek. As long as it's got lots of flashing light, lens flares and explosions who needs plot, characterization or story logic? It made a ton of money so it must be good! Both Transformers movies made much more that XI did so they must be even better films! Even Revenge of the Sith made way more than Trek did and it is widely regarded as the worst of the Star Wars movies. I guess even good Trek is worse than bad Star Wars.

Trek is dying a slow death and this is the wrong way to save it. Book sales are down. Shelf space is way down while Star Wars space is up. The toy tie-in to XI were a major flop. There's no halo effect. No uptick in interest in Trek overall. So, let's dumb it down some more. Maybe a few more explosions will save it.
 
Crikey, so much negative twaddle in one post!

Skipping over the usual anti-STXI rant...

kkozoriz1 said:
Trek is dying a slow death
Wrong. Trek died in 2003 when Enterprise was cancelled. The slow death was from First Contact until then. Star Trek was, quite literally, run into the ground.

Book sales are down
Excuse me? Do you work at Pocket books? Because their sales are a very closely guarded secret. They're still doing 12+ books a year.
The comics are doing poorly in monthly comic form (not limited to Trek, btw), but since IDW haven't dropped Trek, as Marvel did in the late 90's, their TPB's must still be selling.

The toy tie-in was a flop
This is actually true. But action figures aren't the be-all and end-all of Star Trek and Playmates were, frankly, stupid to expect Star Wars-level sales.

DVD sales went up. The novelization was on the New York Times bestseller list. Two more films are on the way. Star Trek goes on.
 
OP....Are you kidding? STII had more (and much longer) battles than ST09! Talk about expounding on a myth!
 
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