I know why things are different before Nero comes back!

[T'Cal]

As much as I've enjoyed STXI (seen it 6 times), I had a wee problem with the "alternate timeline" explanation covering all of the differences, especially those that occurred before Nero arrives to attack the Kelvin. I mean, why are the Kelvin's crew's uniforms and insignia so different from what we've seen in TOS? Once Nero arrives, all bets are off, of course. The writers can do whatever they want since we would then have an alternate timeline.

Right now, I'm watching First Contact and it dawns on me:

Clearly, after Picard and crew meddles in the mid-21st century and leaves for the 24th century, the time they go to is an altered timeline, which began back on April 4, 2063 when they followed the Borg back in time. This explains the changes (mistakes in canon?) that occurred in ENT. In addition, it means that the events in the opening scenes of STXI are a part of this new timeline (if not some other one, if other beings have travelled back before 2233; who knows?). Now there are those that may say that it was predestined that the Enterprise-E would go back to 2063 to do what it did; I disagree.

 

[M'Sharak]

As much as I've enjoyed STXI (seen it 6 times), I had a wee problem with the "alternate timeline" explanation covering all of the differences, especially those that occurred before Nero arrives to attack the Kelvin. I mean, why are the Kelvin's crew's uniforms and insignia so different from what we've seen in TOS?

Because they predate the TOS uniforms by more than thirty years?

There must be time for several such changes in Starfleet uniform design during that interval, even assuming that all branches of Starfleet wear the same uniforms. I certainly don't see that difference, by itself, as being evidence of anything having been changed before the arrival of Narada; in fact, it would have been surprising to me if the uniforms had been identical, or nearly so.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I prefer to believe that, in ST XI, Nero and Spock Prime crossed over into an alternate universe (when they journeyed through the black hole).

It would certainly explain why the rules of timetravel are different here: in all previous instances, changes to the timeline overwrote the original, but this hasn't happened this time. Well, this was the first time a black hole was used for timetravel, and I think it more likely that the black hole led to an alternate universe.

 

[JuanBolio]

I mean, why are the Kelvin's crew's uniforms and insignia so different from what we've seen in TOS?

Because they predate the TOS uniforms by more than thirty years?

Nail on head.

Why's that so hard?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I thought the Kelvin uniforms were very believable 'intermediaries' between the ENT and TOS ones.

 

[JuanBolio]

I'd just like to know what the color-coding was. The captain and first officer were in blue, the helmsman in red, and the engineering guys seems to be in green.

 

[Jeri]

It was said that they wanted to give the Kelvin uniforms a flavor that predated TOS -- so they went with "Forbidden Planet" -inspired designs.

 

[JuanBolio]

It was said that they wanted to give the Kelvin uniforms a flavor that predated TOS -- so they went with "Forbidden Planet" -inspired designs.

...those uniforms didn't really remind me much of Forbidden Planet, actually.

 

[Jeri]

...those uniforms didn't really remind me much of Forbidden Planet, actually.

I just watched the trailer, and there isn't anything that reminds me of them either.

 

[JuanBolio]

...those uniforms didn't really remind me much of Forbidden Planet, actually.

I just watched the trailer, and there isn't anything that reminds me of them either.

No indeed:

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

It was said that they wanted to give the Kelvin uniforms a flavor that predated TOS -- so they went with "Forbidden Planet" -inspired designs.

Not so much Forbidden Planet but a callback to 50s Sci-Fi space outfits, tight and shiny.

 

[Jeri]

Tight and shiny was good. Tahir and Hemsworth look edible.

(So, who was that guy who yells, "They're locking weapons on us!" He looks kind of familiar.)

 

[M'Sharak]

Tight and shiny was good. Tahir and Hemsworth look edible.

(So, who was that guy who yells, "They're locking weapons on us!" He looks kind of familiar.)

I don't know, but I'd guess that would have to be the Tactical Officer, played by Sean Gerace, who was also a researcher for the movie, according to Memory Alpha. Not sure where you would have seen him, though; it's his only acting credit to date. He's not one of those who were pictured on the Intel "Boldly Go" site, back when we first got a glimpse of the Kelvin past the photo which accompanied the EW article.

 

[Arpy]

So they end up in an alternate universe. Nero decides to alter this identical to that point universe to that at least there Romulus survives. Spock is captured and commits to stopping Nero before finally deciding he likes this alternate universe enough to remain there? Otherwise, why not try to go back to his own? One reason is he's going to break the Temporal Prime Directive and try to influence things further. But I don't think that's the case. I think he doesn't know how to get back and is deciding to make the most of it, even though one imagines he'd normally find a way.

Don't like this though because Nero would probably have rather chosen to slingshot around a sun and change HIS universe's history, no? Plus, I think it was one of the writers who said that current theoretical physics suggests that "time travel" if possible would only be so via this alternate universe theory, so this is a more realistic avenue to take. But, 1) that's not how time travel's been presented in the past, so they're really doing a retcon anyway. 2) A coin will end up heads in an original universe and tails in an equal alternate one, but how do Spock and Nero TIME travel a century into the past of that alternate one? Would they then not be employing BOTH dimension jumping AND time traveling?

 

[Nerys Myk]

Do the Romulans in general and Nero in particular know about the slingshot? If they did wouldn't they be slingshotting like mad? Lost the war? SLINGSHOT!!!! Shizon kills the Senate? SLINGSHOT!!! Dumped by Girlfriend? SLINGSHOT!

 

[JuanBolio]

Do the Romulans in general and Nero in particular know about the slingshot? If they did wouldn't they be slingshotting like mad? Lost the war? SLINGSHOT!!!! Shizon kills the Senate? SLINGSHOT!!! Dumped by Girlfriend? SLINGSHOT!

Its kinda like Back to the Future II - if you slingshot forward from an altered past, you wind up in an altered future. Though I imagine that the Narada and the Jellyfish each did a slingshot AROUND the black hole at warp to go back in time - going THROUGH it would've destroyed them. If all the black hole did was send things back in time, that huge supernova would've just come pouring through into 2233.

 

[the Sisko]

Or... watch Enterprise Season 3. The Earth Zindi conflict was never supposed to be apart of history. But now it is... and as a result... we have a different relationship with a race with advanced weaponry (from another dimension at that). In addition, earth started to mobilize militarily years before the romulan war (possibly changing the terms of that war). It'd be easy to imagine the aqua zindi share their SDF technology and the total zindi be a founding member of the Federation as a result of S3.

 

[USS Triumphant]

Clearly, after Picard and crew meddles in the mid-21st century and leaves for the 24th century, the time they go to is an altered timeline, which began back on April 4, 2063 when they followed the Borg back in time. This explains the changes (mistakes in canon?) that occurred in ENT. In addition, it means that the events in the opening scenes of STXI are a part of this new timeline (if not some other one, if other beings have travelled back before 2233; who knows?). Now there are those that may say that it was predestined that the Enterprise-E would go back to 2063 to do what it did; I disagree.

I agree with this so much, it is what I have been yelling to the world since a bit before the movie came out!

But you left out the idea that some of the changes in ENT were the result of a Temporal Cold War that exists in some branches resulting from First Contact. By the time of the movie, it has actually branched away from the original quantum reality not just once (First Contact), but several times - Future Guy's interference, Crewman Daniels' interference (not to mention the stuff he left in his quarters, which, even if Archer was too cool to mess with, eventually must have ended up in Starfleet's hands), and so on.

(Sorry, looks like The Sisko posted part of this idea while I was typing. Not trying to be redundant. )

 

[Toruika]

So they end up in an alternate universe. Nero decides to alter this identical to that point universe to that at least there Romulus survives. Spock is captured and commits to stopping Nero before finally deciding he likes this alternate universe enough to remain there? Otherwise, why not try to go back to his own? One reason is he's going to break the Temporal Prime Directive and try to influence things further. But I don't think that's the case. I think he doesn't know how to get back and is deciding to make the most of it, even though one imagines he'd normally find a way.

Don't like this though because Nero would probably have rather chosen to slingshot around a sun and change HIS universe's history, no? Plus, I think it was one of the writers who said that current theoretical physics suggests that "time travel" if possible would only be so via this alternate universe theory, so this is a more realistic avenue to take. But, 1) that's not how time travel's been presented in the past, so they're really doing a retcon anyway. 2) A coin will end up heads in an original universe and tails in an equal alternate one, but how do Spock and Nero TIME travel a century into the past of that alternate one? Would they then not be employing BOTH dimension jumping AND time traveling?

I think you'll find this interesting:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnkE2yQPw6s
Michio Kaku talks about time travel, parallel universes, and reality.

So, by his explanation, any time travel from "the present" happened in Trek, it was to a similar reality, but not the one the characters left. I'd like to think that butterfly effect could still be possible between realities which resemble each other so closely. This would also explain some of the changes we've seen as a result of First Contact and ENT. Also, given the differences of what TOS projected as happening during the turn of the 21st century and what has actually happened in The Real World, there had to be some adjustments to the Trek universe/s as series continued, such as the Eugenics wars of the 1990s becoming a secret to the world at large.

If you think of the multiverse as branching and conjoining various realities, due to interuniversal travel and impacting events (such as planet Vulcan going bye-bye), then it's not inconceivable that Spock would have a bugger of a time getting back to a reality (and time) closer to Prime universe. Were he able to, it'd probably involve first slingshotting to prevent Nero from attacking the Kelvin in the first place. Even destroying the Narada could have some impact on nuTrek, if any of the borg technology from the ship was discovered (by the Kelvin, likely). But it would put that reality closer to Prime again. Then it would be possible for Spock to slingshot into an alternate future that would resemble his own (hopefully after he prevents the supernova from occuring... which would mean meeting himself, and oh my, what IS THAT?--

http://www.alaska-in-pictures.com/data/media/1/feeding-mallard-ducks_7356.jpg

[Hotlinked image converted to link. Please be sure that images posted inline are hosted on webspace belonging to you. - M']

----) Okay, so this might be why Spock is staying in the current nuTrek verse. "I'm old, Jim. I want to retire."

 

[Shazam!]

And discrepancies in continuity, timelines, alternate universes etc can be explained via good ol' timey-wimey wibbly-wobbly.