I knew they were getting desperate when...
- Thread starter GrowlingDog
- Start date
Wow - I'm a major TOS fan, and I agree with Captain X. Season 4 = fanwank.
Well, sorry then because Season 4 had plenty of character development (not all of it good mind you as I didn't care for Trip to be turned into a love-sick teenager); but plenty of other character development was there; and the stories were for the most part good, and entertaining in addition to being over-laden with TOS references at times.
Hey, we're talking Star Trek where:
In TNG the MOST 'character development' Picard had in 7 years was that he was an amatuer archeologist.
In DS9 the most character development we saw for Sisko was that he was a Creole Chef on the side.
So, come on. What do you want?
The Archer character did grow into more of a 'real' Captain, and I did like that theyn did try and deal on some level with what he went through in Season 3. It wasn't much but after the mess B&B left him with, Coto only had 20 episodes (which became 19 after the Demons/Terra Prime reduction to a 2-parter) to work with; and a lot of things to 'do'.
The Section 31 stuff imo did fit Reed as all through the series he thought Archer had a too lax command style; and was always more 'militaristic' - so I could see him with a stint in Starfleet Security and Section 31.
As for Hoshi - I liked who they handled her for the season and gave her a decent dilema to 'handle' as acting captain in 'Terra Prime'. It showed the character came a long way from the way she was in season one.
And again, the stories themselves were good and dramatic enough - and I really enjoyed both the Vulcan and Andorian story arcs on many levels. YES, they DID cater to fans, but they were in fact good Star Trek stories in their own right (imo).
Captain X
Rear Admiral
I'd disagree with everythign you said. Well, except for maybe the TNG stuff. DS9 was definately a lot better about characetr development and allowing other characters besides just the captain to have some attention given to them.
Archer was never a "real" captain. If anything, he was consistantly written as a poor captain, and S4 was simply a worse offender at portraying him as Super!Archer. Hell, the Vulcan arc was just "Super!Archer brings enlightenment to the noble savages" after all.
Archer was never a "real" captain. If anything, he was consistantly written as a poor captain, and S4 was simply a worse offender at portraying him as Super!Archer. Hell, the Vulcan arc was just "Super!Archer brings enlightenment to the noble savages" after all.
O'k, so getting back on topic.
I think when the show was 1st pitched the producers were hoping that Ent would rate as good as or better than Voy and DS9 and maybe even as good as TNG. If they thought it would rate 1/4 that of TNG, they wouldn't have even started it. I beleieve the 1st half of season one were ep' that they thought would work and then they started fishing.
For me, when they did regeneration it smacked of desperation. It wasn't that it was the worst Borg story but that it wasn't needed and therefore seemed like a plea for ratings. "The Expanse", was a huge experiment that i think they thougt might work but didn't (i liked it, especially the last 5-6 ep').
As i watched season 4 i knew it was all over. Not because i thought it was bad but because of the stories they tried to tie up. "These are the Voyages" certainly wasn't an attempt to win any viewers though and personally i think it was a terrible send off.
So, when do you think they started getting desperate or did none of the stories or ep' in Ent seem to be that way for you?
I think when the show was 1st pitched the producers were hoping that Ent would rate as good as or better than Voy and DS9 and maybe even as good as TNG. If they thought it would rate 1/4 that of TNG, they wouldn't have even started it. I beleieve the 1st half of season one were ep' that they thought would work and then they started fishing.
For me, when they did regeneration it smacked of desperation. It wasn't that it was the worst Borg story but that it wasn't needed and therefore seemed like a plea for ratings. "The Expanse", was a huge experiment that i think they thougt might work but didn't (i liked it, especially the last 5-6 ep').
As i watched season 4 i knew it was all over. Not because i thought it was bad but because of the stories they tried to tie up. "These are the Voyages" certainly wasn't an attempt to win any viewers though and personally i think it was a terrible send off.
So, when do you think they started getting desperate or did none of the stories or ep' in Ent seem to be that way for you?
Captain X
Rear Admiral
I don;t know so much as desperate as they realized that they needed to do something to get people to watch again, because for most of Season 2 they'd slipped into a kind of "business as usual" mode that had been a staple of much of VOY, where none of the episodes really did all that much, and for the most part were played for laughs, because they thought Trekkies would just watch because it was Star Trek. Regeneration was an attempt to get some of those viewers back, because the Borg had always proven popular before. I mean, as much as some people say that VOY ruined them, plenty of people still tuned in for the Borg episodes, so I'm sure it seemed like a sure thing, and to an extent it was, because a good chunk of ENT fans liked that episode. Bounty was another attempt to win back viewers, just that they were pandering to the lowest common denominator that evidently the suits thought the fanbase was made up of - young pubesent males, or just the horny male populous in general. After all, having T'Pol go into heat and run around all sweaty in her underwear is really only going to attract that type of audience, who I'm sure was annoyed by the Archer being kidnapped subplot and just wanted T'Pol to jump on someone and finish taking off the rest of her clothes. The Expanse was anotehr attempt, as well as an attempt to buy them some time so they could try to do something new and exciting, which they partially succeeded in.
Yes, even i, a single, horny guy got pretty tired of T'pol taking her top off to get a massage or running around in her underwear. Personally, i would have preferred stories like say, "The Nth degree" in TNG. Loved that ep'
Not in my book. Season three had fairly decent internal continuity and a sense of desperation (in destroying the Xindi weapon), good character development and a feeling of urgency. Season four was hit or miss with awful internal continuity (forgetting many of the previous plots) and poor character development. I love TOS, don't think Enterprise should strive to be it. It should be a nice lead into TOS and be unique.
In the perfect world, we would have: TOS tie-ins with good character development, interesting plots (with lots of internal continuity) and it be so good you want to watch it every week. I think season 3 was the closest it came, other than a few episodes of 4 (like The Forge, which rocked b/c it had all those elements).
I've always thought that was because Avery Brooks was such a godawful bad actor, they had to make Sisko into basically a minor character.
Wait, first you say there's not enough development, then you say there's too much development with Archer?
Make up your mind.
Regeneration was desperate. It was the only reason why I started to watch Ent for a second time after I was bored of my skulls the first couple of episodes. Personally they could have fixed the plot hole if the Borg managed to wipe out their computers or blocked transmission.
Season 3 was when they got desperate. There was to much going on and they had T'pol get naked. When I saw her butt I was amazed and later saw that has a sign that they were in the shitter.
Season 3 was when they got desperate. There was to much going on and they had T'pol get naked. When I saw her butt I was amazed and later saw that has a sign that they were in the shitter.
Yes, it should have, but wasn't. At best it was VOYAGER season 8, 9, etc.
And the Xindi arc was pointless. Making the stakes the destruction of Earth in the PREQUEL was NOT good storytelling.
This cannot be expressed enough, and should be said until it is run into the ground so hard, it breaks in half.
Similar threads
