I knew they were getting desperate when they introduced the Borg in Regeneration S2E23(i think). Not only did it ruin all of the history of the Borg so far but the Federation was meant to have no idea who the Borg were yet in Regeneration, the lab boss guy told the junior lab guy to send Star fleet all the information they had straight away. That would mean when Picard and Co ran into them, they would have been on the Enterprise computer already wouldn't they? I think it was a desperate attempt to do what they did at the end of season 3 of Voyager but failed terribly. As a side note, i didnt like when they introduced the Ferengi in season 1 (i think) either. When did you think they had become desperate.
I knew they were getting desperate when...
- Thread starter GrowlingDog
- Start date
Yea, which always was a little weak. I'm still left to wonder why Star Fleet had no idea about them when they had sent those scans of them through. I guess we could assume that for some reason they didn't send the scans before they were attacked. Still the question was, when did you think they had become desperate to save Enterprise? Sadly for me season 4 was the best season but by then it was way to lat eand the damage was done, i think, back in season 1 & 2.
Well personally I would say they became desperate with "The Expanse". Up until that point Enterprise was more or less a space exploration show that delt with the alien of the week in the vein of TNG/VOY with the Klingons, Suliban, Vulcans and Andorians recurring. I'd say this was a good thing since Star Trek had become somewhat complacent.
After the failure of Star Trek: Nemesis and falling ratings for the first time in 16 years the producers were forced into shaking things up or face cancellation. Personally this was a good thing. The show went through the same thing again in season 4 when they didn't return to alien of the week episodes but became much more of an homage to TOS filling in the gaps in the Star Trek universe. If the show had continued there probably would have needed to be more of a balance in the following seasons.
After the failure of Star Trek: Nemesis and falling ratings for the first time in 16 years the producers were forced into shaking things up or face cancellation. Personally this was a good thing. The show went through the same thing again in season 4 when they didn't return to alien of the week episodes but became much more of an homage to TOS filling in the gaps in the Star Trek universe. If the show had continued there probably would have needed to be more of a balance in the following seasons.
Good point. "The Expanse" blew me away but like plenty of later DS9 episodes, there almost seems to be too much going on. The writers knew time was nearly up, so they dived into the Trek toybox. After gorging on TOS (with a side order of TNG) during Season 4, Enterprise would've needed to go on a diet had there been another year. Which means going back to it's own identity, undoubtedly leading to cancellation away.
Season 4--that's when they got desperate. Season 3 isn't a favorite of mine, but at least it was truly about Archer and the crew. Season 4 was all about setting up TOS--this shoved the Enterprise crew to the background. In seasons 1 and 2, the characters were the strength of the show--they all but disappeared in season 4. I did like the Vulcan story, because I was o.k. with Enterprise Vulcans, and thought that bridge was needed. But the Augments story and MU story (what a waste of 2 hours of Enterprise's last season) were technically fine and well acted, but lacked heart. To top off this season of "the Origins of TOS," what do they do? Create a TNG episode and cut out before the actual founding of the federation. The finale was true desperation--it was all about B&B and their version of Trek. Now I liked the B&B version of Trek in many ways, and I disliked season 4--but still, Manny Coto should have had the chance to finish off his season his way. So season 4 was a desperation move for the franchise, and the finale was a desperation move by two guys whose best Trek writing days were behind them.
I never had a problem with the Borg episode since it was the movie that caused the time loop that brought the Borg to earth. It is like so many other timeline stories in Star Trek, they make a mess that cannot be cleaned up nicely.
Season 3 was the desperate season because that is when they started worrying about being canceled. No one episode showed me a major sign of desperation. It loomed over their heads all season. They were happy to get season 4 and I don't think any of them really expected to go to season 5.
Season 3 was the desperate season because that is when they started worrying about being canceled. No one episode showed me a major sign of desperation. It loomed over their heads all season. They were happy to get season 4 and I don't think any of them really expected to go to season 5.
I don't think Regeneration is evidence of desperation. It would have been in the works before fans left in droves during the mid-season 2 slump.
I think they just thought it would be a fun episode to do that plays off the destruction of the sphere in First Contact.
And frankly, I liked it.
As for why the crew of Ent-D didn't recognize them in Q Who? -- why would they? They're in the Delta quadrant. It wouldn't have occurred to them to check computer records for any history of a first contact with the Borg in the Alpha Quadrant.
The Borg in ENT are a blip in the 22nd century. They had no significant impact on history. So why would they be instantly recognizable to people 200 years later?
I agree that "The Expanse" and S3 were the act of desperation. And it worked for me. I really enjoyed the vast majority of the episodes and some of them are among the best Trek I've ever seen.
I think they just thought it would be a fun episode to do that plays off the destruction of the sphere in First Contact.
And frankly, I liked it.
As for why the crew of Ent-D didn't recognize them in Q Who? -- why would they? They're in the Delta quadrant. It wouldn't have occurred to them to check computer records for any history of a first contact with the Borg in the Alpha Quadrant.
The Borg in ENT are a blip in the 22nd century. They had no significant impact on history. So why would they be instantly recognizable to people 200 years later?
I agree that "The Expanse" and S3 were the act of desperation. And it worked for me. I really enjoyed the vast majority of the episodes and some of them are among the best Trek I've ever seen.
Exactly what I was thinking when I pitched the idea to Brannon.
Thanks, glad you enjoyed it.
number6
Vice Admiral
Frankly I don't get the hate for this episode. It was pretty well done, followed up on the events of First Contact quite well and made the Borg look dangerous again. I think this episode sets up the 24th century Borg quite well.
Thanks for all the great episodes you brought to ENT, Mr. Sussman!!
Thanks for all the great episodes you brought to ENT, Mr. Sussman!!
Hi, Mr. Sussman.
I'm sorry to take this thread off track but could you shed a little light on this nugget from Memory Alpha, please?
http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Star_Trek_Enterprise#The_Would-Be_Season_5
# Writer/producer Mike Sussman hoped to have T'Pol finally meet her father, and reveal to the audience that he was in fact a Romulan agent who had posed as a Vulcan officer prior to faking his own death. The suggestion that T'Pol was half-Romulan would have shed light on her affinity for humans as well as her interest in experimenting with emotions.
There's been no citation for the source of that information.
I was wondering if that was true or not.
Thanks.
I'm sorry to take this thread off track but could you shed a little light on this nugget from Memory Alpha, please?
http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Star_Trek_Enterprise#The_Would-Be_Season_5
# Writer/producer Mike Sussman hoped to have T'Pol finally meet her father, and reveal to the audience that he was in fact a Romulan agent who had posed as a Vulcan officer prior to faking his own death. The suggestion that T'Pol was half-Romulan would have shed light on her affinity for humans as well as her interest in experimenting with emotions.
There's been no citation for the source of that information.
I was wondering if that was true or not.
Thanks.
Hi Mike Sussman! I loved, loved, loved Enterprise! Definitely the best modern Trek in my book, and even though it fell off a little each season, I loved it to the end! My previous favorite had been TNG--the first I saw as a first run series, but for my money, Enterprise was better! Sorry, though, did NOT like "In a Mirror Darkly," but hey if it's most peoples' favorites, you shouldn't mind.
O.K.--fan letter over...
O.K.--fan letter over...
I thought "Regeneration" was the best Borg episode since "I, Borg." It was a taut, nicely-written little thriller that actually made the Borg scary again, for the first time in a looong time. And I loved the creepy X-Files-type atmosphere at the beginning of the episode as well as the neat ending that tied it to the Borg's first appearance in TNG.
And honestly, those who whine that the episode "violated canon" are just looking for something to complain about. It fit in perfectly with the established Borg storyline.
Oh, and thanks for dropping by Mike Sussman! As an aside, I just finished the novella you contributed to the "Glass Empires" collection. Great story!
And honestly, those who whine that the episode "violated canon" are just looking for something to complain about. It fit in perfectly with the established Borg storyline.
Oh, and thanks for dropping by Mike Sussman! As an aside, I just finished the novella you contributed to the "Glass Empires" collection. Great story!
Welcome Mike Sussman!
[wayne's world]"We're not worthy!"[/wayne's world]
What do make of the new trailer for "Star Trek" (the next film) and has any of the new team been in touch? Excited? Nervous about them reimagining the original? Hopefully they'll be some continuity references to ENT.
[wayne's world]"We're not worthy!"[/wayne's world]
What do make of the new trailer for "Star Trek" (the next film) and has any of the new team been in touch? Excited? Nervous about them reimagining the original? Hopefully they'll be some continuity references to ENT.
well that may explain why the borg were not common knowledge after the rescue of the el aurians.
nah i didnt see regeneration as desperation but really more a fun way to set some stuff back right and to explain some of the oddities over the years about why the borg didnt become known after the el aurians, and why was the borg already sniffing around in federation space before the encounter in qwho.
I think it's best enjoyed in combination with Cogley's excellent review, and MikeSussman's excellent rebuttal to said review.
Regeneration worked for me. I liked the conceit of the ENT crew having less knowledge than the viewer. Also, I thought much of the episode was an intentional nod to both the original version and the remake of "The Thing."
How else could ENT have done a Borg episode?
How else could ENT have done a Borg episode?
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