I finished Season One...does it get any better?
- Thread starter seigezunt
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Don't forget, "Future's End" has one of the BEST Janeway quotes from the entire series!
JANEWAY: Time travel. Ever since my first day in the job as a Starfleet Captain I swore I'm never let myself get caught in one of these god-forsaken paradoxes. The future is the past, the past is the future. It all gives me a headache.
The ep also has some great flirting between Chakotay and Janeway while walking the boardwalk in civilian clothes. (Its hard to imagine, a man who was afraid to call her "Kathryn" before "Resolutions", telling her the woman rollerskating by them has "her" legs.)
JANEWAY: Time travel. Ever since my first day in the job as a Starfleet Captain I swore I'm never let myself get caught in one of these god-forsaken paradoxes. The future is the past, the past is the future. It all gives me a headache.
The ep also has some great flirting between Chakotay and Janeway while walking the boardwalk in civilian clothes. (Its hard to imagine, a man who was afraid to call her "Kathryn" before "Resolutions", telling her the woman rollerskating by them has "her" legs.)
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I'd say the worst is the second half of Season 7. Enjoy the ride up to the "The Void" then hop off and put in nuBSG.
Of course, if you stop at "The Void", then you miss "Workforce" which would be a true loss in my book.
By then again, why listen to me. Heck, I loved "Endgame" (minus the C/7 parts).
By then again, why listen to me. Heck, I loved "Endgame" (minus the C/7 parts).
See, I would have preferred they do "Workforce" with the original premise where Chakotay was Janeway's lover on Quarra which would have forced them to deal with the whole JC thing one way or the other not to mention the chracter arc possibilities for the rest of the season.
But that's just me being a JCer again.
You_Guyz
Commander
That sounds awesome! I wonder who put the kybosh on that, probably Mulgrew.....again!
Mulgrew and Beltran had some of the best chemistry I've ever seen on screen.
As much as I like that idea (J/C Rulz!), then we would miss the heroic Chak trying to save the day, the wounded Chak who seduces the suspicious woman to his side, and the Commander asking the Captain in the final scene if she regretted his arrival.
"Not for a second!"
Also, sigh, as much as I LOVE J/C, there was something so bittersweet about her goodbye to Jaffen that I would have missed.
Better to make Chak the hero in Workforce, and have a DIFFERENT ending to "Shattered" than the enigmatic... "JANEWAY: Then maybe you should go to the Cargo Bay and grab another (cider) one. CHAKOTAY: How do you know that's where I keep it? JANEWAY: Oh, I can't tell you. CHAKOTAY: Why not?JANEWAY: Temporal Prime Directive.
I don't know...I've kinda taken a little break and gone back to finishing up the woefully short Enterprise. Now with nothing else left, I may...watch TNG again.
I will probably plow through, but with the list of best episodes from you guys in hand, and my thumb on the FF button.
Does it get any better?
No. Not really. Kinda. There are few high moments in the middle. From Before and After to Hope and Fear, Voyager is a thing of true beauty. I'd kinda expand it to Unity and Drone. But more or less, only the middle part of Voyager really shines.
From season to season 4, there is a feeling of continuity in Voyager. There's a certain sense of being on a journey, of characters growing (the Tom&B'Elanna romance for example), a sense of danger because they're counting their resources and the enemies are just so dangerous... but then season 5 happens. Suddenly Voyager's past is reinvented in every episode, the galaxy is safe, warm and fuzzy and everyone learns an important moral lesson in the end of an episode.
But on the other hand, season 5 delivers many great stand-alone moments. But season 6 was just one-star episode after another... I watched it until Rock appeared, and except for Tinker Tenor, it was just bad.
Voyager starts as an average 90's show, but it ends as an average 70's show.
But as you may have noticed, the only difference between a Voyager hater and a lover is how they express their opinions.
Hater: "Voyager sucks, however that slice of the show was awesome.
Lover: "Voyager rules, that slice of the show was just best of the best of all time, however the hater has really shown his incompetence in making valid opinions as his loved slice clearly sucks beyond imagination."
No one is capable of loving the entire show. It's a pick and choose kind of show.
No. Not really. Kinda. There are few high moments in the middle. From Before and After to Hope and Fear, Voyager is a thing of true beauty. I'd kinda expand it to Unity and Drone. But more or less, only the middle part of Voyager really shines.
From season to season 4, there is a feeling of continuity in Voyager. There's a certain sense of being on a journey, of characters growing (the Tom&B'Elanna romance for example), a sense of danger because they're counting their resources and the enemies are just so dangerous... but then season 5 happens. Suddenly Voyager's past is reinvented in every episode, the galaxy is safe, warm and fuzzy and everyone learns an important moral lesson in the end of an episode.
But on the other hand, season 5 delivers many great stand-alone moments. But season 6 was just one-star episode after another... I watched it until Rock appeared, and except for Tinker Tenor, it was just bad.
Voyager starts as an average 90's show, but it ends as an average 70's show.
But as you may have noticed, the only difference between a Voyager hater and a lover is how they express their opinions.
Hater: "Voyager sucks, however that slice of the show was awesome.
Lover: "Voyager rules, that slice of the show was just best of the best of all time, however the hater has really shown his incompetence in making valid opinions as his loved slice clearly sucks beyond imagination."
No one is capable of loving the entire show. It's a pick and choose kind of show.
I haven't seen a VOY episode since it's initial run, but I remember being generally satisfied with it. It think it depends on the person watching the show. IMO, DS9 was much too boring to keep me interested. I understand things got better with the Dominion War, but by the time that happened, I'd already missed too many eps to jump back in.
I still haven't seen more than 20 episodes of DS9, but I followed all of the other series' through. Just a matter or personal taste.
I still haven't seen more than 20 episodes of DS9, but I followed all of the other series' through. Just a matter or personal taste.
I find it odd that the shows were made by kinda the same people. I love DS9 and ENT, and scratch my head when it comes to VOY. I'm sticking it out though.
Not really. Rick Berman had very little to do with DS9, despite being credited as one of the creators, while Braga had nothing to do with it. It was all Michael Piller and later Ira Steven Behr as showrunners, and Robert Hewitt Wolfe, Hans Beimler, Rene Echevarria, Ron Moore and Peter Allan Fields as other main writers/producers. VOY was a lot more of a Braga/Berman brainchild, with Jeri Taylor, Joe Menosky, Kenneth Biller and a few others writing most of the episodes. (There are a few writers that overlap, like Michael Taylor, but they weren't one of the main writers on both shows. Ron Moore spent very little time with VOY.) ENT was not that different from VOY while Berman and Braga were most involved with it (few storyarcs, recycling old Trek plots, not taking risks) and changed significantly when Manny Coto (joined the staff in S3, became showrunner in S4) and the Reeves-Stevens couple came on board and B&B input lowered. Mike Sussman worked on both VOY and ENT, but I think he was a lot more of a presence on the latter. (I also think that most of the good ENT stuff was written by Coto, Sussman, Phyllis Strong and Reeves-Stevenses, while B&B were hit and miss, but more miss than hit, and were responsible for some of ENT's worst mistakes, like the TCW.)
I think it's a bit unfair to say that VOY was a brainchild of Braga and Berman. The first few years of VOY were more about Jeri Taylor trying to undermine everything that Michael Piller did.
Now the Seska period wasn't perfect, but the show at least had a direction and the characters some personality and certain edge to them. That was the Piller period. Taylor ruined it with Investigations. Intentionally. Because she just could.
I happened to read that well known Ron Moore interview lately. There he mentions how Voyager writers often belittle each other, that it's a constant battle of ego's. Now he describes what happened in the makings of VOY season 6. But that interview kinda actually sheds some light also, at least in my opinion, on why Investigations happened and why Braga's proposed year-long arc got a huge "no, bitch! stfu and roll in line!"
That's just how they rolled. Braga's period is already late in the series, when everyone has given up on delivering something interesting.
Mike Sussman
The worst mistake was actually season 2. TCW was actually kinda interesting in the first season. The first season is also interesting because it's pretty much written by Braga and Berman alone... that's something unique.
Well, more so than DS9 was, for sure. I did mention Jeri Taylor as one of the most influential people on VOY.
Bottom line, some writers worked on more than one of those shows, but one can't really say that the same crew of writers were responsible for all 3 shows.
Where is TheGodBen?
Yes, I agree that season 1 was a decent introduction into the show, doing some classic exploration while introducing the beginning of a few storyarcs (Vulcans, Andorians) and developing the characters; but season 2 should have been the season that builds on this foundation and where the real stories started - and instead, ENT season 2 was much worse and it's where the show lost direction. Unlike DS9 or TNG, which got better in the second season (granted, TNG season 1 was too awful for words so this wasn't difficult...).
