all thins considered I think, over all, voy s1 was the best of all the shows with the single exception of how ds9 ended s1. I thought that was a VERY good finish to a weak season. But I stopped watching voy half way into s4....it just lost my interest completely
I finished Season One...does it get any better?
- Thread starter seigezunt
- Start date
I'm not kidding. So far, I find DS9 a much, much better show, and I didn't have to drag my way through ENT the way I have through VOY so far.
I'm actually watching ENT and VOY concurrently for the first time, and having a much better time with ENT. I'm in season three of ENT. So soon that will end, and I can concentrate on enduring VOY.
I liked VOY, for the most part. Sure, it had it's bad episodes, but also many good ones. The general quality was fairly high, and I liked the chemistry between the characters. Plus, I was a little nostalgic, having whatched it as a child, and now finding scenes I remembered.
One more thing, don't watch the last episode. It really made me think less the show.
One more thing, don't watch the last episode. It really made me think less the show.
Personally, I loved Voyager. Like exodus, after a long day of school, I would always look forward to (at first, Monday nights and then Wednesday nights cause UPN changed the lineups a lot) sitting down and watching a new episode of Voyager. I didn't think that year one was THAT strong, however, there were some wonderful episodes that I especially liked: "Parralex", "The Cloud", "Faces", and "Eye of the Needle". It did have a very strong start and I loved the storyline with the Maquis and the Federation characters. I thought it was awesome how they had to join forces in order to survive 70,000 light years from home.
Season two was wonderful also=that's when all the crap started happening on the ship and I won't spoil it for those who haven't seen it yet..but it gets interesting half-way through the second season!!! All I'm gonna say about that is that not everything is as it seems on Voyager!
I also loved year three and thought that overall, the episodes were enjoyable, with a few duds.
Year four for me was ok..I'm not your token Voyager fan in that I didn't particularly care for Seven of Nine's character and the fact that she took the spotlight away from everyone else at the time. She's not that great looking of a woman..yes nice body and everything..but that's...just..IT!
The other seasons 5-7 were mediocre for me, although in season 6 I highly recommend the episode: Tinker, Tenor, Doctor, Spy. You'll laugh your ass off at the first two minutes of the episode! It's hilarious! You may be disappointed in the very last episode of Voyager, though, "Endgame". Alot of the fans either loved it or hated it. I couldn't stand it! But I'm not gonna tell those who haven't watched the series all the way through about how it goes or ends..they'll have to watch it just like everyone else did in order to find out for themselves!
Season two was wonderful also=that's when all the crap started happening on the ship and I won't spoil it for those who haven't seen it yet..but it gets interesting half-way through the second season!!! All I'm gonna say about that is that not everything is as it seems on Voyager!
I also loved year three and thought that overall, the episodes were enjoyable, with a few duds.
Year four for me was ok..I'm not your token Voyager fan in that I didn't particularly care for Seven of Nine's character and the fact that she took the spotlight away from everyone else at the time. She's not that great looking of a woman..yes nice body and everything..but that's...just..IT!
The other seasons 5-7 were mediocre for me, although in season 6 I highly recommend the episode: Tinker, Tenor, Doctor, Spy. You'll laugh your ass off at the first two minutes of the episode! It's hilarious! You may be disappointed in the very last episode of Voyager, though, "Endgame". Alot of the fans either loved it or hated it. I couldn't stand it! But I'm not gonna tell those who haven't watched the series all the way through about how it goes or ends..they'll have to watch it just like everyone else did in order to find out for themselves!
Hi, couldn't find an introduction thread, so if this is wrong i oppologise.
Greetings-
Mr Shaft here, and i'm lovin' the forum btw. Anyhoo, if you dont mind me answering this, i'll say yes and no. It changes when Kes leaves and Seven takes over. I like Seven, but had to much of a soft spot for Kes really.
Plus Janeway started to get on my nerves a bit as it progressed. I wanted Chakotay to kick 'er ass once or twice.
Well, thats my two cents worth
Greetings-
Mr Shaft here, and i'm lovin' the forum btw. Anyhoo, if you dont mind me answering this, i'll say yes and no. It changes when Kes leaves and Seven takes over. I like Seven, but had to much of a soft spot for Kes really.
Plus Janeway started to get on my nerves a bit as it progressed. I wanted Chakotay to kick 'er ass once or twice.
Well, thats my two cents worth
I guess it personal taste but I couldn't suit thru 3 eps. of ENT., much less a whole season. Holy shit, besides Trinner & Billingsly there wasn't one cast member that could act??? Someone should have told Blalock & Backula that talking slowly doesn't equate into dramatic acting.
I'll give Voyager that much credit, besides Garrett Wang, at least the majority of the Voyager cast can act.
If you don't like it after season 1, then you probably won't like it at all.
As for me, season 1 of Voyager grabbed me and never let go. I loved the characters, and the stories from the get go. (Well, Janeway's hair DID bug me in a few eps.)
YMMV, but I saw character development over the years in the junior officers, as would be expected for people who had not yet found their footing in the "adult" world. Even Captain Janeway changed, when one considers her statement in season 1 about the distance she tried to keep between herself and her crew and the fact that by the end of season 7 she had 2 foster daughters and 2 foster sons. The EMH changes the most, going from a character with the least number of lines in season 1's premiere, to a character with several eps devoted to him in season 7.
Thanks for giving Voyager a try. I think you should watch more but if its an onerous chore, stop now before your remote gives you blisters, and rewatch TNG or DS9. Life's too short to waste time eating chocolate ice cream if you prefer strawberry.
As for me, season 1 of Voyager grabbed me and never let go. I loved the characters, and the stories from the get go. (Well, Janeway's hair DID bug me in a few eps.)
YMMV, but I saw character development over the years in the junior officers, as would be expected for people who had not yet found their footing in the "adult" world. Even Captain Janeway changed, when one considers her statement in season 1 about the distance she tried to keep between herself and her crew and the fact that by the end of season 7 she had 2 foster daughters and 2 foster sons. The EMH changes the most, going from a character with the least number of lines in season 1's premiere, to a character with several eps devoted to him in season 7.
Thanks for giving Voyager a try. I think you should watch more but if its an onerous chore, stop now before your remote gives you blisters, and rewatch TNG or DS9. Life's too short to waste time eating chocolate ice cream if you prefer strawberry.
So are you having trouble with Voyager because you find the writing weak?
Interesting. I gave ENT a fair shot but after a few episodes when I realized Porthos was my favorite character and he wasn't getting nearly enough screentime imo decided to give it up.
Meanwhile, Voyager had what many consider to be the best premier ever with "Caretaker".
Season 2 is also my favorite season with episodes like "Death Wish", "Resistance" and "Meld".
I guess liking/not liking characters is very subjective. Overall I like the characters on ENT much better than those on VOY (except poor Travis who is just Kim #2). Oddly enough, I started off hating almost all of them, then they grew on me, and I started liking them for the same things I disliked them at first - basically, being flawed and human, making mistakes and occasionally acting stupid; and you can actually see them changing and developing. It's what kept me going throughout many bad episodes of the first 2 seasons of ENT, before the show got good.
Also, I really don't understand why people criticize Jolene Blalock's acting.
You_Guyz
Commander
I didn't really see Janeway get that close to the three. The lack of tertiary characters and the episode "Good Shepherd" showed that even on a ship of 150 she still barely knew most people.
I wouldn't say having more episodes devoting to you = character development to be honest, the Doctor did "develop" but the developed into an arrogant ass who thought the whole universe owed him a favor.
I personally don't get all these people who bitch and whinge about not being able to get into other Treks.
Where else are you going to find other tv shows in the trek universe? I feel that any true fan of the trek universe should be able to appreciate all the shows.
Um, some of the fanfilms out there are pretty expansive, and better than Voyager or Enterprise.
Hidden Frontier with TNG's Shelby Captaining the excelsior for the most part, was magnificent, and now it's got a Voyager like spin off with a big gay captain trying to make it back from the Andromeda galaxy to do it with his husband, and an alpha quadrant spinoff with a girl captain who had to take matters into her own hands which branded her a criminal in the eyes of the Federation who have been hunting her for the last three or so episodes.
Paramount dropped the ball.
Hidden Frontier with TNG's Shelby Captaining the excelsior for the most part, was magnificent, and now it's got a Voyager like spin off with a big gay captain trying to make it back from the Andromeda galaxy to do it with his husband, and an alpha quadrant spinoff with a girl captain who had to take matters into her own hands which branded her a criminal in the eyes of the Federation who have been hunting her for the last three or so episodes.
Paramount dropped the ball.
Obviously, I disagree. :-) Regarding Voyager crew in general...
"This is Kathryn Janeway, I've never liked saying goodbye so I'll make this brief. But I want you all to know that serving as your Captain has been the most extraordinary experience of my life. No Captain could ask more than what this crew has given, bravery, compassion and strength of character. But what I think I'll miss most is the fun; the times we've joked together, the games on the holodeck. I'll remember the laughter more than anything.... Janeway out."
Regarding B'Elanna's relationship with Janeway, one just has to look to season 6.
BLT: "It doesn't matter if you THINK it was real, it was real to ME!...Whatever it was, it changed me, I can't ignore that, I need to confront what's happened."
KJ: "I'm sorry."
BLT: "You know, you're just like her!"
KJ "Lieutenant?"
BLT: "My Mother. You are as dedicated to Starfleet priniciples as she was to Klingon Honor. (She turns away from Janeway's gaze) I know that we haven't always seen eye to eye, but despite our differences you've helped me become a good officer, and I'd like to think that you are proud of me for it."
KJ: "I am."
BLT: (Looks directly at KJ) "My mother never had a chance to be proud of me. I'd like her to know me the way you do." (KJ now turns away, and BLT chases her across the briefing room.) I don't want her to die, thinking of me as a disgrace. (KJ turns back to BLT) You have to let me do this."
B'Elanna obviously thinks of Janeway as her surrogate mother. The Barge of the Dead episode hammers this home in a multitude of ways, with Janeway and Miral often quoting each other, or wearing similar clothing. I won't bother to remind you who ends up in who's arms at the end of the episode.
As for how Janeway sees her relationship with B'Elanna or Harry, one only has to go back to season 3's Coda... These are the two who in her mind give her eulogy.
BLT: ".... She saw something in me that I couldn't see, she saw a worthwhile person where I saw a lost and hostile misfit. And because she had faith in me, I began to have faith in myself, and when she died.. the first thing I thought was that I couldn't do this without her. That I needed her too badly, her strength, and her compassion. But then I realized that the gift that she gave me, and gave a lot of us here, was the knowledge that we are better and stronger than we think. I wish I had said these things to her, I wish I had taken the time."
Harry: "...the mission where we found all those bushes of over ripe fruit, I must have eaten over half a kilo. And the Captain, the Captain came and sat down next to me and her mouth was all stained too, she put her arm around my shoulder and she said, she said, Ensign, these are the times we have to remember..." (breaks down)
As far as calling Tom one of her foster sons, since she's had children with him, perhaps I should turn that "honor" over to the EMH. Although the Doctor's personality is egocentric, at least he "has" one now. The character has turned from a computer program "to be used", to a person "to be considered". Even Janeway came around in the end, offering to take him for a date on the holodeck as long as there was NO OPERA involved!
Excellent post.
As far as the 3 in "Good Shepherd", they clearly explained that all 3 of them went out of their way to stay under the radar so they wouldn't be noticed. That is why Janeway refers to them as "falling though the cracks".
"11:59" also supported the fact Janeway saw them all as her family. The photo they took together at the end of the ep. cements this as well as the toast "Too family!"
Interesting. I gave ENT a fair shot but after a few episodes when I realized Porthos was my favorite character and he wasn't getting nearly enough screentime imo decided to give it up.
Meanwhile, Voyager had what many consider to be the best premier ever with "Caretaker".
Season 2 is also my favorite season with episodes like "Death Wish", "Resistance" and "Meld".
It seems like we have the same opinion about "Enterprise" (especially the favorite character), "Caretaker" and Voyager's season 2.
My favorite season 2 episodes are "Cold Fire" and "Persistence Of Vision" but I consider "Resistance" and "Meld" as excellent episodes too.
You_Guyz
Commander
Let's not forget this is a tv show. The fact is from what we saw on screen, Janeway rarely socialised with the crew and basically never talked to anyone who wasn't a part of the senior staff.
This is what we saw on screen and this is what I'm taking from the character. I'm not ready to start assuming she frequently organised hoverball matches and picnics in Fairhaven simply because of a couple of random lines thrown in the odd episode where it is suggested she liked hearing people laugh.
Clearly you love Janeway, but she isn't a real person and from what we actually saw on screen, she didn't appear to socialise much at all or even talk to anyone besides the senior staff.
Now you're perfectly entitled to imagine whatever you will what happened between episodes but as far as I'm concerned, its much more logical to extrapolate the actions of the captain from what we saw and imagine she really didn't do much with the crew. I always felt "Good Shepherd" was a bit of character assassination on the writer's part.
Agreed.
Let's also remember that this "tv show" showed us slices of "life" from 7 years of travel. "171 hours of show" to represent 2555 hours of their adventure.
Heck, we didn't see her socializing much at all, because socializing isn't "action". We saw her working, we saw her fighting, we saw her settling arguments between her crew and with other aliens. We very rarely saw her recreating, but that doesn't mean she didn't do it. We only "saw" her take two baths during her 2555 nights on Voyager, and yet from her throw away line with Chakotay in season 2, we assume she does it nearly every night.
?
Okay... not sure how to respond to that one. I'm just glad that we all agree that Kathryn Janeway is a fictional character. As for logic, I think it would be logical to think there would have been a lot of eye rolling and guffaws among the lower deck crews during her speech in season 2, if what she was saying was untrue in their fictional lives.
Did she have "wing night" with the lower deck crew in her quarters? No. But we know that from what "Kim" said to Lindsey Ballard, "You've been invited to dinner in her quarters? I'VE never been invited!"
True, when she does socialize, its usually with her senior staff (Chakotay is usually the one invited for dinner) but then again, as Tom said in season 1, she is the Captain, and there is a wall. A wall, as Harry Kim showed us when he invited her to the french bistro, she was willing to open.
