He's still happy as a clam in the nexxus.
I donn't think Kirk is dead anyway so what's the big deal?
- Thread starter Flying Spaghetti Monster
- Start date
Kirk came back in 'The Return'. So he's not dead and I don't if anyone says it's not canon! 
Charlie
Charlie
Re: Charlie Kelly's avatar
Why do you have Tony Blair in your avatar?
Why do you have Tony Blair in your avatar?
Re: Charlie Kelly's avatar
Tony Blair is the man!!
Tony Blair is the man!!
Re: I donn't think Kirk is dead anyway so what's the big dea
To which Shatner is totally correct when he says, "It's sci-fi! Nobody's ever REALLY dead."
Of course, I'm paraphrasing. But he's right. Look at Spock - there he was, end of the second movie in the franchise, clearly irradiated and dead in the matter/antimatter chamber, and then a military funeral with a bloated Scotty playing the bagpipes.
Who was that? Paris from Mission Impossible?
To which Shatner is totally correct when he says, "It's sci-fi! Nobody's ever REALLY dead."
Of course, I'm paraphrasing. But he's right. Look at Spock - there he was, end of the second movie in the franchise, clearly irradiated and dead in the matter/antimatter chamber, and then a military funeral with a bloated Scotty playing the bagpipes.
Who was that? Paris from Mission Impossible?
Re: I donn't think Kirk is dead anyway so what's the big dea
that was an 'echo' (read: plot device) of Guinan who, according to herself, could not leave the Nexus - she wasn't actually Guinan (despite knowing Picard
), just an imprint on the Nexus the real Guinan left behind.
that was an 'echo' (read: plot device) of Guinan who, according to herself, could not leave the Nexus - she wasn't actually Guinan (despite knowing Picard
), just an imprint on the Nexus the real Guinan left behind.
Re: I donn't think Kirk is dead anyway so what's the big dea
Exactly. This was stated clearly in the movie. There wasnt two Guinans just her 'echo' in the nexus and her real self on the Enterprise. So Kirk is dead. His echo is in the nexus. I doubt you could rescue an 'echo'.
cultcross said:
that was an 'echo' (read: plot device) of Guinan who, according to herself, could not leave the Nexus - she wasn't actually Guinan (despite knowing Picard
Exactly. This was stated clearly in the movie. There wasnt two Guinans just her 'echo' in the nexus and her real self on the Enterprise. So Kirk is dead. His echo is in the nexus. I doubt you could rescue an 'echo'.
Re: I donn't think Kirk is dead anyway so what's the big dea
Show me the Nexus Rule Book on echoes and all that stuff. Do we know everything about the Nexus? Was everything about this mysterious object revealed? Do we really know everything about anything?
Maybe the Nexus is an intelligent being that knew Kirk would die if he left, so the Nexus had his ECHO leave (or a Super Echo that has physical form and can interact with people...or even a CLONE!), and that's what died...while Kirk is that happy clam still inside, ready and willing to be taken out by Spock.
Come on people, open your minds!
Show me the Nexus Rule Book on echoes and all that stuff. Do we know everything about the Nexus? Was everything about this mysterious object revealed? Do we really know everything about anything?
Maybe the Nexus is an intelligent being that knew Kirk would die if he left, so the Nexus had his ECHO leave (or a Super Echo that has physical form and can interact with people...or even a CLONE!), and that's what died...while Kirk is that happy clam still inside, ready and willing to be taken out by Spock.
Come on people, open your minds!
Re: I donn't think Kirk is dead anyway so what's the big dea
Guinan only has an echo because she and the others were "ripped" out of the Nexus by the Ent-B transporter while in "space-time flux" (or whatever Scotty said).
Guinan only has an echo because she and the others were "ripped" out of the Nexus by the Ent-B transporter while in "space-time flux" (or whatever Scotty said).
Re: I donn't think Kirk is dead anyway so what's the big dea
Ah, found the Generations shooting script on-line (which differs a bit from the on-screen version):
So Guinan, Soran, and the other El Aurians have "echoes" -- I think that this was intended to be the reason that El Aurians (or at least some of them) have special powers, like knowing when the timeline has changed.
Kirk, though, does not have an echo. Nor Picard. They both left freely.
Ah, found the Generations shooting script on-line (which differs a bit from the on-screen version):
So Guinan, Soran, and the other El Aurians have "echoes" -- I think that this was intended to be the reason that El Aurians (or at least some of them) have special powers, like knowing when the timeline has changed.
Kirk, though, does not have an echo. Nor Picard. They both left freely.
Re: I donn't think Kirk is dead anyway so what's the big dea
^Not only that, but wasn't Kirk a part of Picard's Nexus experience? If so, then it was all Picard, and Kirk's Nexus experience is separate.
Plus which, if Picard saw Guinan's echo, doesn't it stand equally to reason that he saw Kirk's as well? I suppose you could say it's generally inferred, but sorry, that's not a closed door right there.
Anyhoo, bottom line is Guinan BARELY explained anything about the Nexus. Being sci-fi, judging by GENERATIONS, we don't really know what the hell the Nexus even IS.
There's plenty of workaround on this Nexus thing, at least as far as possibilities go.
^Not only that, but wasn't Kirk a part of Picard's Nexus experience? If so, then it was all Picard, and Kirk's Nexus experience is separate.
Plus which, if Picard saw Guinan's echo, doesn't it stand equally to reason that he saw Kirk's as well? I suppose you could say it's generally inferred, but sorry, that's not a closed door right there.
Anyhoo, bottom line is Guinan BARELY explained anything about the Nexus. Being sci-fi, judging by GENERATIONS, we don't really know what the hell the Nexus even IS.
There's plenty of workaround on this Nexus thing, at least as far as possibilities go.
Re: I donn't think Kirk is dead anyway so what's the big dea
Is it ever said that Kirk doesn't have an echo? Or Picard, for that matter? Wonder what's happening in the old Nexus these days - Kirk may still be getting Picard to wear panty hose to ride the horses and echo around all the time.
That said, I do think it's heavily inferred - and believed by Guinan, IMO - that the transporter caused the "echoes." I just don't think that it's established that Guinan "knows all" about the Nexus.
Just musing.
Is it ever said that Kirk doesn't have an echo? Or Picard, for that matter? Wonder what's happening in the old Nexus these days - Kirk may still be getting Picard to wear panty hose to ride the horses and echo around all the time.
That said, I do think it's heavily inferred - and believed by Guinan, IMO - that the transporter caused the "echoes." I just don't think that it's established that Guinan "knows all" about the Nexus.
Just musing.
Re: I donn't think Kirk is dead anyway so what's the big dea
^The Nexus only comes by every 78 years, though.
^The Nexus only comes by every 78 years, though.
Re: I donn't think Kirk is dead anyway so what's the big dea
^It's always coming by somewhere!
Besides, does the Guardian has limited range?
I'm not all that serious, but this Nexus brainstorming is actually kind of fun.
^It's always coming by somewhere!
Besides, does the Guardian has limited range?
I'm not all that serious, but this Nexus brainstorming is actually kind of fun.
