I Didn't Mind the CGI-effects in the Prequel Series

[VulcanMindBlown]

Sure. Much of the Old Republic feels very much like a rehash of the older films. I can't stand the NJO because it's always some galaxy threatening weapon, and don't get me started on the Legacy series.

The other thing to note is that the PT is to lead directly in to the OT, so if there is a tonal difference, it will be noticeable.

First of all, ROTJ didn't leave the Empire intact. There was celebrations all across the galaxy of the Emperor's defeat.

The Neimodians were practical effects, not CGI.

Mustufar is not essential to the story. What does it add to the story?


Ha, not really. If you read the BTS on the OT, especially Star Wars, the film was always a razor edge of failure and production being canceled. Best idea forward? There is a whole website on what ideas GL borrowed from where, not the least of which was the basic structure from Joseph Campbell, which was completely abandoned in the PT. Empire is a far different story of a film, far darker in its approach. The characters at least felt like they had definition, personality and were believable.

None of the characters in the PT ever felt real to me, like real people responding to real problems. It has a feel of a play, and the characters just don't engage me. Who was a shade of gray? Lots of them show up in the EU (Quinlan Vos, Aayla Secura, Plo Koon, among others) but not in the films.

The PT was about a great Galactic Republic turning into corruption. The action was great, especially in the Clone Wars saga. Clone Troopers are much better at fighting than Storm Troopers, who weren't composed of a great warrior. The environments and characters were much more diverse in the PT and the ST half-ly got rid of it by copying the OT.

The Original Trilogy was kinda limited in what it could do to tell a galactic story through better special effects. I am not saying that it was bad, but shouldn't we use the most that we got????

Do you think that we can just rehash the OT to an infinity of Star Wars movies? It gets old. We need to expand and make new with the old themes still intact, but still somewhat new situations, like the PT.

Indeed.
http://starwarsaficionado.blogspot.com/2014/09/behind-scenes-few-screws-loose.html

Maybe the OP was thinking of a different alien species.

Kor

Sorry, I should have researched that, but my point was that CGI, which Star Wars is ALL ABOUT using the latest special effects to wow you, was not used.

Now, I don't hate JJ Abrams or the ST, it's Star Wars, it's not meant to be taken that seriously (it's escapism for 8 year-olds, as Mark Hamil said, grown male fans of Star Wars!!!) but I was kinda disappointed by it, and I am a bigger fan of George Lucas than most Star Wars fans.

 

[fireproof78]

The PT was about a great Galactic Republic turning into corruption. The action was great, especially in the Clone Wars saga. Clone Troopers are much better at fighting than Storm Troopers, who weren't composed of a great warrior. The environments and characters were much more diverse in the PT and the ST half-ly got rid of it by copying the OT.

The Original Trilogy was kinda limited in what it could do to tell a galactic story through better special effects. I am not saying that it was bad, but shouldn't we use the most that we got????

Do you think that we can just rehash the OT to an infinity of Star Wars movies? It gets old. We need to expand and make new with the old themes still intact, but still somewhat new situations, like the PT.

The problem with the PT is in it's scope, or visual effects. The problem comes back to the story and the characters.

For instance, let me use an example. What is it about the Old Republic that needs to be saved? Why should I care about it? What are we shown in the films that make the Old Republic and the Jedi Order worthwhile? Because, as is constantly being pointed out, the Republic is corrupt, the Jedi Order is stagnant, so why save it. We don't see the good side of this system that we are supposed to want to see saved.

The PT has great bones, great framework of something epic, but it never sells it by showing what the good guys are fighting for. It tells me a whole lot, and there are books and novels, and TV shows and such that tell me a whole lot, but I don't get it from the films.

That all said, I don't hate the PT. Let me repeat, I don't hate the PT, I don't hate GL, I don't hate what he did. I just think there was a huge missed opportunity, largely because the PT became an experimental platform for digital film making.

Now, I don't hate JJ Abrams or the ST, it's Star Wars, it's not meant to be taken that seriously (it's escapism for 8 year-olds, as Mark Hamil said, grown male fans of Star Wars!!!) but I was kinda disappointed by it, and I am a bigger fan of George Lucas than most Star Wars fans.

Funny. I feel the same way about the PT. I think GL needed a few more limits to help make his vision more about the characters in a believable way.

Mileage can, and obviously does, vary. Also, I would like to give a really big shout out to Rebel Force Radio's film commentaries, especially Sam Witwer's insight about the PT. He has given me a much different perspective on the PT that I have had in the past. I may not like it as much as the OT or the ST (thus far-one film in), but I have a greater appreciation for what GL was trying to do.

 

[LJones41]

Now, I don't hate JJ Abrams or the ST, it's Star Wars, it's not meant to be taken that seriously (it's escapism for 8 year-olds, as Mark Hamil said, grown male fans of Star Wars!!!) but I was kinda disappointed by it, and I am a bigger fan of George Lucas than most Star Wars fans.

STAR WARS wasn't simply for 8 year-olds I don't know what Mark Hamill was talking about. If that is all what he had seen in the saga, then it is probably a good thing that he never became a writer. If he did . . . good grief.

 

[WebLurker]

STAR WARS wasn't simply for 8 year-olds I don't know what Mark Hamill was talking about. If that is all what he had seen in the saga, then it is probably a good thing that he never became a writer. If he did . . . good grief.

Well, the franchise seems to appeal to the kid in all of us, so I don't think it's too far off the mark.

 

[publiusr]

I'd like to see those CGI effects re-done with todays tech--it might be less jarring.

 

[fireproof78]

STAR WARS wasn't simply for 8 year-olds I don't know what Mark Hamill was talking about. If that is all what he had seen in the saga, then it is probably a good thing that he never became a writer. If he did . . . good grief.

The original concept was based upon the sci-fi serials, like Flash Gordon, that GL saw as a kid. So there is a certain element that is true, from a certain point of view.

The fact that there all deeper themes that adults can relate to does not change how the original SW was designed, conceived and marketed.

 

[LJones41]

Well, the franchise seems to appeal to the kid in all of us, so I don't think it's too far off the mark.

To me, it is. I'm not saying that only adults can relate to "STAR WARS". But judging from Hamill's words, he seemed to think that only kids or those with a childish mentality can relate to the story.

 

[Reverend]

^I'd call that a radical interpretation of the text.

 

[Jedi_Master]

The problem was the movies used the CGI instead of a story, acting etc.

Yep. When the CGI IS the story, and more attention is paid to how the scene LOOKS than the dialogue, acting, or anything else then the movie starts to suffer.

 

[fireproof78]

To me, it is. I'm not saying that only adults can relate to "STAR WARS". But judging from Hamill's words, he seemed to think that only kids or those with a childish mentality can relate to the story.

He hasn't yelled at fans to get a life, so I would say that we're still ahead on the game.

I also think the term "childish" is a bit of an exaggeration, given how many adult fans of Star Wars are out there. I think that having a more childlike mindset, not childish, There are certain facets of Star Wars that benefit from that viewpoint, and it isn't diminishing of the audience by encouraging them to approach it in a similar way.

 

[Ithekro]

Remember that Mark Hamill has been a comic book fan since forever. He was going to Comic Con for as long as anyone remembers, and has a fanboy mindset, so he knows what fans are likely thinking in a broad sense. He wasn't a fanboy of Star Wars, but his son (born during production of The Empire Strikes Back) is. Mark Hamill was into superheroes and the like.

 

[Jedi_Master]

George Lucas regularly promoted the notion that 'Star Wars is for kids' when the prequels weren't as well received as he expected.
I think that was a disservice to himself, and to Star Wars in general. Star Wars isn't a childish story, so if a Star Wars film comes off as childish, that's a problem with the filmmaker, not a return to mean.

 

[LJones41]

Remember that Mark Hamill has been a comic book fan since forever. He was going to Comic Con for as long as anyone remembers, and has a fanboy mindset, so he knows what fans are likely thinking in a broad sense. He wasn't a fanboy of Star Wars, but his son (born during production of The Empire Strikes Back) is. Mark Hamill was into superheroes and the like.

Neither Mark Hamill or anyone else speaks for me. I've been a comic book fan for years. I've also been a fan of science-fiction and fantasy movies for years. I'm not going to blindly accept Hamill's judgment on "STAR WARS" films, because he was one of the stars or because he has been a "comic book fan". I don't agree with him about that the SW movies are mainly for kids. Period. And I think that his judgment is off. You can agree with him, if you want. I simply don't.

 

[fireproof78]

I don't think anyone is demanding 100% agreement with any specific person or group-certainly not the impression that I have garnered here.

I also don't think the term "for children" means "childish" in the way that it is tossed around. I personally have rediscovered an enjoyment of many films and TV shows just by watching them with my own children. If that's "childish" then I'll wear it with a badge of honor.

 

[Ithekro]

The meaning isn't that it is meant for kid, it is to make you feel like a kid again. The old sense of wonder and the like most people lose once they hit the work force.

 

[velour]

The problem was the movies used the CGI instead of a story, acting etc.

You're right.

It seemed that the PT was as much, or more, about the CGI than about telling a good story. I got the impression that Lucas tried to fit a story around his CGI instead of the other way around.


I also had a problem with the B1 (I think that is what they are called) battle droids. I found the design of the B1s odd. For the most part of the PT, the B1s were villains, or they represented the bad guys.

However, the B1 droids looked wimpy and fragile. They looked like walking sticks. And they acted and sounded dumb. The Jedis and everybody else easily killed dozens of those droids at a time, and they didn't even have to break a sweat. Those battle scenes were really not exciting to watch. It came across like bullies beating up on the wimpy kids.

Wouldn't it have made better sense for the CGI artists to have designed those droids to look sinister and menacing; to actually look like formidable adversaries?

 

[fireproof78]

I think the idea of the battle droids was that alone, they could be rather fragile, while and entire group was far more formidable. I mean, even the Jedi would struggle against the formations rolled out at the Battle of Theed.

Secondly, I think that CGI was a big factor, of creating wave after wave of enemies, and that involved pushing the limits of CGI. I think their voices needed work, but there is definitely an alien/inhuman look to them that would be intimidating en masse.

 

[WebLurker]

It seemed that the PT was as much, or more, about the CGI than about telling a good story. I got the impression that Lucas tried to fit a story around his CGI instead of the other way around.

Maybe. On the other hand, Lucas was always pushing special effect tech forward in his movies, so it's not really that new. Also, I think that the less lively acting is a bigger problem than the CGI.

I also had a problem with the B1 (I think that is what they are called) battle droids. I found the design of the B1s odd. For the most part of the PT, the B1s were villains, or they represented the bad guys.

However, the B1 droids looked wimpy and fragile. They looked like walking sticks. And they acted and sounded dumb. The Jedis and everybody else easily killed dozens of those droids at a time, and they didn't even have to break a sweat. Those battle scenes were really not exciting to watch. It came across like bullies beating up on the wimpy kids.

Wouldn't it have made better sense for the CGI artists to have designed those droids to look sinister and menacing; to actually look like formidable adversaries?

I think the idea of the battle droids was that alone, they could be rather fragile, while and entire group was far more formidable. I mean, even the Jedi would struggle against the formations rolled out at the Battle of Theed.

Secondly, I think that CGI was a big factor, of creating wave after wave of enemies, and that involved pushing the limits of CGI. I think their voices needed work, but there is definitely an alien/inhuman look to them that would be intimidating en masse.

The original intent was that they looked like Neimodian skeletons, although the final explanation is that the Geonosians who built them modeled them on themselves. I personally thought they looked more like aardvarks. But, I love the B1 battle droids and their brown successors in the movies. I thought they looked cool, their role made sense and they made the battles more interesting. Hey, my second-favorite Freemaker Adventures character was Roger the battle droid. Kind of wish that they would do that more, bring back some of the battle droids as good guys in post-prequel stories (they did to Mr. Bones, but he felt more like a tool than a character, they way Roger does).

 

[velour]

Maybe. On the other hand, Lucas was always pushing special effect tech forward in his movies, so it's not really that new. Also, I think that the less lively acting is a bigger problem than the CGI.

It seemed like every other scene in the PT was a fight scene, lots of shooting, droids in action and/or ships in combat. Obviously, they were all CGI scenes. There was an overload of CGI, especially CGI combat scenes. A lot of those scenes were not necessary, imo. They didn't really make sense, story-wise, unless the point was to showcase the CGI.

It seemed to me that Lucas had the CGI scenes in mind first, and then he created a story around the CGI. That is not the right approach, if that indeed was what happened. The pod racing scene, the underwater scene with those monster fishes, and the scene in the diner with that multi armed alien are three scenes that come to mind that seem to me to be unnecessary, except if the intent was to showcase the CGI.

And I agree that the weak acting didn't help matters.

 

[WebLurker]

It seemed like every other scene in the PT was a fight scene, lots of shooting, droids in action and/or ships in combat.

Sounds a lot like the original movies.

Obviously, they were all CGI scenes. There was an overload of CGI, especially CGI combat scenes. A lot of those scenes were not necessary, imo. They didn't really make sense, story-wise, unless the point was to showcase the CGI.

Or to tell a story with stuff that couldn't be done with practical effects.

It seemed to me that Lucas had the CGI scenes in mind first, and then he created a story around the CGI. That is not the right approach, if that indeed was what happened. The pod racing scene, the underwater scene with those monster fishes, and the scene in the diner with that multi armed alien are three scenes that come to mind that seem to me to be unnecessary, except if the intent was to showcase the CGI.

I can understand if the sea and pod racing scenes went a little long, although they were integrated into the story. The diner was just dressing for a scene, so it having CGI aliens didn't hurt the movie anymore than having lots of aliens in the ANH bar did for ANH.

And I agree that the weak acting didn't help matters.

Although I think Ewan MacGregor did a decent job with what he was given (and according to behind the scenes stuff, really put a lot of effort into performing like a young Alec Guinness).