I did not realize the Doctor was such an ass

[Gingerbread Demon]

http://io9.com/5898445/10-times-the-doctor-acted-like-a-total-bastard-on-doctor-who

That's quite shocking... I didn't realize the Doctor had been such an ass hole.. Wow wanting to throw people out the TARDIS while it is flying.. Ouch!!!!

 

[Christopher]

Well, that article is rather facetious in tone and greatly exaggerates most of its points for comic effect. Best not to take it literally.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Well, that article is rather facetious in tone and greatly exaggerates most of its points for comic effect. Best not to take it literally.

Yeah but I did know about the Ian and Barbara thing. They would have died instantly had he done it..

 

[Starkers]

Its a trifle unfair in places, but not in others, #9 is spot on really!

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Its a trifle unfair in places, but not in others, #9 is spot on really!

#9 is very dear to me as Donna was my favourite companion of the new incarnation of the show.

I do feel sorry for some of them that died but didn't have to and all.

 

[Christopher]

Yeah but I did know about the Ian and Barbara thing. They would have died instantly had he done it..

Well, at that point, all the characters' personalities had been affected by the anomaly. It was earlier in the same episode that Susan was going around trying to stab people with scissors.

Still, the Doctor was originally conceived as a more amoral and potentially dangerous character. Early on in the development process, they even planned for him to become the main villain of the show. Instead, they had him start out ruthless and then become more benevolent as he bonded with Ian and Barbara and learned kindness and nobility from their example (or maybe was reminded of those traits within himself). The story in question here, "The Edge of Destruction," was the turning point in their relationship, the moment where the tensions in the group came to a head and were resolved, bonding them together from then on.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Yeah but I did know about the Ian and Barbara thing. They would have died instantly had he done it..

Well, at that point, all the characters' personalities had been affected by the anomaly. It was earlier in the same episode that Susan was going around trying to stab people with scissors.

Still, the Doctor was originally conceived as a more amoral and potentially dangerous character. Early on in the development process, they even planned for him to become the main villain of the show. Instead, they had him start out ruthless and then become more benevolent as he bonded with Ian and Barbara and learned kindness and nobility from their example (or maybe was reminded of those traits within himself). The story in question here, "The Edge of Destruction," was the turning point in their relationship, the moment where the tensions in the group came to a head and were resolved, bonding them together from then on.

OMG that is interesting. Can you imagine the show had he been the villain?

 

[Redfern]

As I've half jokingly said in a few other threads, the Doctor as depicted until his "epiphany" in "Brink of Disaster" (part 2 of "Edge of Destruction") was almost a "Dr. Smith", several times causing the very problems his companions faced. He literally kidnaps Ian and Barbara to maintain his secrecy; his lighting a pipe tempts a group of cavemen to abduct him to learn the "secret of fire"; he nearly "brains" an injured caveman with a rock; in the first Dalek serial he fakes damage to the TARDIS giving them an excuse to investigate the alien city (supposedly to find replacement mercury) leading the group to be captured by the Daleks; and finally in "Edge of Destruction" he threatens to "boot" the humans from the time capsule (though as noted above, everyone was being "influenced").

Yes, amoral, arguably bordering on villainous during those first 13 episodes.

Sincerely,

Bill

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

I still find the dark aspect fascinating.

I wonder how the show might have played out had they kept that going every now and then.

 

[Christopher]

As I've half jokingly said in a few other threads, the Doctor as depicted until his "epiphany" in "Brink of Disaster" (part 2 of "Edge of Destruction") was almost a "Dr. Smith", several times causing the very problems his companions faced.

Yup. When people refer to the character as "Doctor Who," they're misunderstanding the title. It's not his name, it's a question. Who is this mysterious Doctor? What's his agenda? Can he be trusted? That was the original intent. The heroes were Ian and Barbara, and the Doctor was an enigma whose actions helped create the crises they had to extricate themselves from.

He literally kidnaps Ian and Barbara to maintain his secrecy;

That one I never quite understood. Unless he deliberately stranded them in some alien place and time, revealing his secrets to them would've just increased his risk of exposure. I suppose he panicked once they forced their way into the TARDIS; but if he'd just thrown them out and then dematerialized while they'd been off summoning the police, then there would've been no evidence to support their claims. And even if he had made sure they disappeared for good, then that would've just attracted more investigation, although I suppose the findings would've been inconclusive.

 

[PorthosShadow]

I think the important thing to remember is that The Doctor is an alien from a civilization far older than that of our own. His attitude at any given moment that seems out of the ordinary is understandable.

 

[Redfern]

Yeah, the abduction was a moment of panic. The real dilemma was that Susan wanted to stay where and when they were at that point, 1963 London. But with the teachers having seen the TARDIS and its wonders, the Doctor knew it was time to go. The solution was simple, but it meant upsetting his granddaughter.

I think part of it was a bit of hubris. You could tell the doctor did not like being considered a doddering old fool. Neither Ian nor Barbara, but particularly Ian just could not accept the notion this really was a space/time machine. And that incensed the Doctor. He had already decided they'd have to leave, just in case someone were to accept the teachers' claims, but he decided he'd "show off" before dumping the pair in the junkyard and then leaving forever. Except...they got assaulted by cavemen and then upon their escape, landed on Skaro instead of 1963 London.

Sincerely,

Bill

 

[Christopher]

I think part of it was a bit of hubris. You could tell the doctor did not like being considered a doddering old fool. Neither Ian nor Barbara, but particularly Ian just could not accept the notion this really was a space/time machine. And that incensed the Doctor. He had already decided they'd have to leave, just in case someone were to accept the teachers' claims, but he decided he'd "show off" before dumping the pair in the junkyard and then leaving forever. Except...they got assaulted by cavemen and then upon their escape, landed on Skaro instead of 1963 London.

Except that presupposes that he expected to be able to deliver them back home at will. At that point, he had essentially no control over the ship at all beyond being able to take off at will. Granted, he was reluctant to admit his lack of control to others, but he must've known that his chances of being able to get them back to '63 London were slim.

 

[Richard Baker]

One of my favorite (and darker) moments from 'Family of Blood'

"The Doctor and the Family escape the explosion, but the Doctor captures them and issues each member an eternal punishment. He pushes the mother out of the TARDIS into the event horizon of a collapsing galaxy, wraps the father in unbreakable chains forged in the heart of a dwarf star, traps their daughter in every mirror everywhere in existence, and suspends their son in time before putting him to work as a scarecrow. Narrating this conclusion, the son realizes that the Doctor was capable of defeating them from the start, but chose to hide instead out of mercy."

He is an alien with an alien's point of view and code of conduct. Most of the time his and our structures align so we forget about the differences, but occasionally they do stand out.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

One of my favorite (and darker) moments from 'Family of Blood'

"The Doctor and the Family escape the explosion, but the Doctor captures them and issues each member an eternal punishment. He pushes the mother out of the TARDIS into the event horizon of a collapsing galaxy, wraps the father in unbreakable chains forged in the heart of a dwarf star, traps their daughter in every mirror everywhere in existence, and suspends their son in time before putting him to work as a scarecrow. Narrating this conclusion, the son realizes that the Doctor was capable of defeating them from the start, but chose to hide instead out of mercy."

He is an alien with an alien's point of view and code of conduct. Most of the time his and our structures align so we forget about the differences, but occasionally they do stand out.

But had they hid out for a couple of months the family would have died out anyway...

Why is the father stuck in the bowels of the TARDIS? I didn't even know there was a "basement" there. How do you have a basement in a ship with infinite mass?

 

[Volpone]

I maintain that the big difference between the Doctor and the Master is the companions. The Master never has anyone to serve as a moral compass or curb his arrogance. I always kind of hate the MWUAHAHAHAHAHAHHA!!! Eeeeevil Master stories. I like the ones where he has some motivation where, in his mind, he is the Good Guy--Galactic domination? It only makes sense. Most creatures are stupid compared to him. He should rule them--for their own good.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

I never got the wasted potential of the anonymity of the Doctor's death. Granted, I didn't see it as such a big deal, but they made a big deal (him getting too big for his britches, if I recall the line correctly). Then they erase the Dalek's memory of him.

Then the Daleks remember and so does everybody else, more or less. Was there a point to that?

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

I never got the wasted potential of the anonymity of the Doctor's death. Granted, I didn't see it as such a big deal, but they made a big deal (him getting too big for his britches, if I recall the line correctly). Then they erase the Dalek's memory of him.

Then the Daleks remember and so does everybody else, more or less. Was there a point to that?

Actually that really, really annoyed me.

The whole theme in season 5 ending with the Pandorica and such. It just annoyed me..

And yes wiping all trace of himself from the Daleks, and everywhere else, yet Earth can still call him for help, and anyone else that has his contact details.. Right. Good job writers.. "sigh"

Oh yeah and then undoing all that with the Daleks now remembering him..

 

[Christopher]

I always kind of hate the MWUAHAHAHAHAHAHHA!!! Eeeeevil Master stories. I like the ones where he has some motivation where, in his mind, he is the Good Guy--Galactic domination? It only makes sense.

I dunno. Sure, we like fictional characters to have nuanced motivations because it's more interesting, but there are far too many people in the world whose only motivations are selfish -- people who will do anything to increase their personal wealth and power without regard for how much it hurts other people. Sure, they say that nobody really considers oneself to be the bad guy, but there are plenty of people whose definition of "good" does not extend beyond their own personal gain.

The Master's motivation is right there in his/her name. "I am the Master. You will obey me." It's a power trip. The ultimate sense of entitlement, the desire for absolute power over others' lives and deaths. The Master kills and conquers because s/he can. Moffat recently likened the Doctor's relationship with the Master/Missy to "a friendship between a vegetarian and a hunter." In that paradigm, the Master is the kind of hunter who's in it purely for sport and the thrill of the kill.

 

[Sindatur]

I think part of it was a bit of hubris. You could tell the doctor did not like being considered a doddering old fool. Neither Ian nor Barbara, but particularly Ian just could not accept the notion this really was a space/time machine. And that incensed the Doctor. He had already decided they'd have to leave, just in case someone were to accept the teachers' claims, but he decided he'd "show off" before dumping the pair in the junkyard and then leaving forever. Except...they got assaulted by cavemen and then upon their escape, landed on Skaro instead of 1963 London.

Except that presupposes that he expected to be able to deliver them back home at will. At that point, he had essentially no control over the ship at all beyond being able to take off at will. Granted, he was reluctant to admit his lack of control to others, but he must've known that his chances of being able to get them back to '63 London were slim.

Yea, in my mind, that's the actual crime in that scene, the fact that he had no reason to believe he could ever get them back to their lives. If it was a later Doctor who could at least have some reasonable chance of returning them home, it wouldn't have been nearly as bad, but to rip them out of their lives, without having a reasonable chance of getting them home at some point and to not even tell them that so they can make a choice is pretty amoral (from a Human point of view). And all because they cared for and were worried about his Grand Daughter