I can't stand Trip

[od0_ital]

...
Even that shows poor thought on the part of the writers. They could easily have had the sphere attack Texas.

Come on, now...the Xindi weren't that stupid!

Bunch of aliens that look like various animals...the NX-01 would have been beaten to the Expanse by cowboys in pick-ups that had warp nacelles attached just so they could go a huntin' while yellin', "We still remember the Alamo, ya furry bastards!"

Instead of MACOs, Archer would have had a crew of Rangers, too. With phasers that look like six shooters.

 

[bluedana]

I think the thing that bothered me most about his accent wasn't that he was Southern. I think I was annoyed that he was supposed to be from Florida and sounded straight out of the Texas area. (I should know, I've lived in Florida and Texas.)

But why is this such a sticking point? Lots of people where I live don't have a "Bahston" accent, even though they've been living here for years, or were even born here. You'd be hard-pressed to place my accent, and I don't even try -- and when I get angry, I revert to the accent of my parents, who are not American.

Because I believe if you're from the south, which I am, you frequently get - the ole "insert whatever southern accent for any part of the south," when they are all very different. I gotta say, that bothers me no matter what the media. And it lessens the credibility of the character.

Nobody in Florida has a southern-style accent? Everyone sounds the same in Texas? The "you should sound like the state you're from" argument doesn't fly, now that people move about the country and the world at will. A hundred years from now? It will matter even less.

If that's true then why have accents at all?

There's a rule in writing, including creating characters: consistency. I think Enterprise's main fatal flaw was this. Even according to the people who love Trip/Connor here, the actor admitted he thought the character was from the Texas region.

And since when does one opinion fly and another not? Isn't the whole idea that all opinions fly, just we have different views?

I didn't say your opinion doesn't fly, only that the argument doesn't fly. There's a difference. It may very well be your opinion that it lessens the credibility of the character that he sounds more Texan than Floridian, and you may dislike him because of that.

But it's just not a persuasive argument that a person sounding like he's from Texas when he's really from Florida is a "fatal" character flaw -- because people move all over the country and the world and retain their native accents all the time. All we know is that Trip went to school in Florida. We don't know where his parents were from -- and IIRC, they moved to (maybe back to) Mississippi at some point. Perhaps the Tucker roots are not strictly Floridian.

Will people have accents a hundred years from now? Yeah, probably, but they probably will have evolved somewhat. My great-great grandchildren won't sound like the Kennedys (actually, nobody does), but I bet they'll still be dropping occasional Rs and swallowing Ts, and maybe even saying "wicked" a lot, whether they're still in Massachusetts or have migrated to Rhode Island, New Hampshire or Maine. And people will say they have a "New England" or Boston accent, regardless of where they're living.

 

[RandyS]

I disliked Trip because he was unprofessional and used his friendship with the Captain to obtain perks over and above other crewmembers. There were numerous occasions where he was insubordinate and Archer just let it slide. I wouldnt not have minded if it had been highlighted as a problem that needed to be addressed (and Malcom did do this with Archer to some degree, criticising him for what was effectively a sloppy attitude towards crew discipline). I suppose it irritated me a bit that Trip would criticise Malcom when in fact Malcom was acting correctly and Trip was abusing his position..

Agreed. Anyone who would have acted the way Trip did in "Strange New World", they would be court- martialled, Tripping balls or not.

Anybody who acted the way Trip did the majority of the time would be court-martihalled.

 

[JiNX-01]

The idea that the chief engineer on Earth's first warp five starship can't do differential equations and learnt his trade on motor boats is frankly ridiculous. .

What episode mentioned that, that I may never, ever watch it (again)?!

Shuttlepod One for the first and This Ain't The Valentine for the second.

 

[Shatnertage]

...
Even that shows poor thought on the part of the writers. They could easily have had the sphere attack Texas.

Come on, now...the Xindi weren't that stupid!

Bunch of aliens that look like various animals...the NX-01 would have been beaten to the Expanse by cowboys in pick-ups that had warp nacelles attached just so they could go a huntin' while yellin', "We still remember the Alamo, ya furry bastards!"

Instead of MACOs, Archer would have had a crew of Rangers, too. With phasers that look like six shooters.

Awesomely funny.

 

[John Vasiliou]

I think Tripp is awesome myself.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I disliked Trip because he was unprofessional and used his friendship with the Captain to obtain perks over and above other crewmembers. There were numerous occasions where he was insubordinate and Archer just let it slide. I wouldnt not have minded if it had been highlighted as a problem that needed to be addressed (and Malcom did do this with Archer to some degree, criticising him for what was effectively a sloppy attitude towards crew discipline). I suppose it irritated me a bit that Trip would criticise Malcom when in fact Malcom was acting correctly and Trip was abusing his position..

Agreed. Anyone who would have acted the way Trip did in "Strange New World", they would be court- martialled, Tripping balls or not.

If Spock can get slaps on the wrist for forging orders, kidnapping, striking a superior officer and hijacking the ship I'm sure Trips antics wouldnt even be worthy of a verbal warning.

 

[Hopeful Romantic]

I'm sure Trinneer would have done a more specific accent if he'd been told ahead of time that Trip was from northern Florida, and not the Texas/Oklahoma region.

As I recall, Trinneer said as much in that interview.

If Spock can get slaps on the wrist for forging orders, kidnapping, striking a superior officer and hijacking the ship I'm sure Trips antics wouldnt even be worthy of a verbal warning.

I was thinking this too, actually.

In TOS, Spock and McCoy were Kirk's trusted advisors as well as best friends. At times they spoke freely and forthrightly, lectured him, bent or broke rules. Sometimes it pissed Kirk off, but I think he knew that, as a leader, he needed such frank talk and action at times. Archer considered Trip an advisor as well as a friend, I think.

And a p.s. about accents. I was born in Texas, moved away at age 2. But because of my Texas-born parents, and spending a lot of time with my numerous Texas relatives, I would slide into a Texas accent with them. You can pick up an accent from anywhere.

 

[Skywalker]

Heck, I lived in Chesapeake, Virginia, for three years, but came from a New England family, and we'd just moved to Virginia after living in Anchorage, Alaska, for five years (I'm a military brat ), and I've now been living in Maine since 1999. But even today I still sometimes hear a little bit of a Southern twang slip into my vocabulary every now and then.

 

[The Badger]

...
Even that shows poor thought on the part of the writers. They could easily have had the sphere attack Texas.

Come on, now...the Xindi weren't that stupid!

Bunch of aliens that look like various animals...the NX-01 would have been beaten to the Expanse by cowboys in pick-ups that had warp nacelles attached just so they could go a huntin' while yellin', "We still remember the Alamo, ya furry bastards!"

Instead of MACOs, Archer would have had a crew of Rangers, too. With phasers that look like six shooters.

Somehow I imagine a lot of banjo playing whilst on this trip. "We're gonna make you squeal like a Tellerite!"

And never mind a crew of Rangers, just one. Walker, Texas Ranger .

The idea that the chief engineer on Earth's first warp five starship can't do differential equations and learnt his trade on motor boats is frankly ridiculous. .

What episode mentioned that, that I may never, ever watch it (again)?!

Shuttlepod One for the first and This Ain't The Valentine for the second.

Which is convenient, at least for the second part. You weren't ever going to watch TATV again, anyway, were you?

 

[Pauln6]

I disliked Trip because he was unprofessional and used his friendship with the Captain to obtain perks over and above other crewmembers.

Please cite specifics of unprofessional behavior and the many perks Trip enjoyed because of his friendship with the Archer.

There were numerous occasions where he was insubordinate and Archer just let it slide.

Please cite the numerous occasions.

I wouldnt not have minded if it had been highlighted as a problem that needed to be addressed (and Malcom did do this with Archer to some degree, criticising him for what was effectively a sloppy attitude towards crew discipline).

Malcolm had the gall to criticize Archer for dining with subordinates. Yes, Archer gave him permission to speak freely, but who the hell was Malcolm to be telling him he shouldn't get acquainted with the crew?

I suppose it irritated me a bit that Trip would criticise Malcom when in fact Malcom was acting correctly and Trip was abusing his position.

Malcolm was behaving correctly when he balked at Archer's order to work out a combat training schedule for the crew for no other reason than that it was Major Hayes' idea?
Malcolm was behaving correctly when he got into a fist fight with Hayes?
Malcolm was behaving correctly when he kept Archer in the dark when they were flying at warp speed into a dangerous situation in "Affliction"?

Trip was second highest ranking officer on the ship. I don't recall him ever mistreating anyone. He and Archer had been friends for many years. Did you expect the relationship to disappear because Archer was captain?

I apologise if I can't be too specific as I have only watched the series once on its first run many years ago. I recall one instance where Trip was invited on a planetary survey by Archer as sort of shore leave - Archer asked him admittedly but it was unprofessional of him to ask the chief engineer down on a survey mission as a bit of a lark. I do think that a good commanding officer puts friendship to the back of their minds when making command decisions (remember Troi's silly commander test?). Of course friendship and loyalty are important themes in Star Trek and there will be occasions when crew break the rules for friendship but dishing out perks to your mates doesn't look good in my view.

I think what Malcom was quite rightly implying was not that it was wrong to dine with crew but that Archer's command style was quite lax and dining with the crew seemed to make that worse in his particular case. And I think that in spite of being told to speak freely, Malcom pulled his punch significantly out of respect. I think Archer is the weakest of all the Trek captains that we've seen and he lacked the 'frontier spirit' that I was hoping to see.

I recall several occasions where Trip was rude and sometimes even abusive to alien ambassadors and representatives. I don't recall him ever being disciplined formally for his behaviour. He should never have been anywhere near those kinds of diplomatic contacts and I think it was his friendship with Archer that cut him so much slack. McCoy was abrasive and had a consensual double-act going with Spock but I think he knew very well when to speak and when to shut up when dealing with foreign dignitories.

 

[Voyager_freak]

i like him, but not Travis...

 

[JiNX-01]

I disliked Trip because he was unprofessional and used his friendship with the Captain to obtain perks over and above other crewmembers.

Please cite specifics of unprofessional behavior and the many perks Trip enjoyed because of his friendship with the Archer.

Please cite the numerous occasions.

Malcolm had the gall to criticize Archer for dining with subordinates. Yes, Archer gave him permission to speak freely, but who the hell was Malcolm to be telling him he shouldn't get acquainted with the crew?

I suppose it irritated me a bit that Trip would criticise Malcom when in fact Malcom was acting correctly and Trip was abusing his position.

Malcolm was behaving correctly when he balked at Archer's order to work out a combat training schedule for the crew for no other reason than that it was Major Hayes' idea?
Malcolm was behaving correctly when he got into a fist fight with Hayes?
Malcolm was behaving correctly when he kept Archer in the dark when they were flying at warp speed into a dangerous situation in "Affliction"?

Trip was second highest ranking officer on the ship. I don't recall him ever mistreating anyone. He and Archer had been friends for many years. Did you expect the relationship to disappear because Archer was captain?

I apologise if I can't be too specific as I have only watched the series once on its first run many years ago. I recall one instance where Trip was invited on a planetary survey by Archer as sort of shore leave - Archer asked him admittedly but it was unprofessional of him to ask the chief engineer down on a survey mission as a bit of a lark. I do think that a good commanding officer puts friendship to the back of their minds when making command decisions (remember Troi's silly commander test?). Of course friendship and loyalty are important themes in Star Trek and there will be occasions when crew break the rules for friendship but dishing out perks to your mates doesn't look good in my view.

Desert Crossing. Trip had repaired an alien's spaceship and was specifically invited by the grateful alien to join Archer for a visit to his homeworld.

I think what Malcom was quite rightly implying was not that it was wrong to dine with crew but that Archer's command style was quite lax and dining with the crew seemed to make that worse in his particular case. And I think that in spite of being told to speak freely, Malcom pulled his punch significantly out of respect. I think Archer is the weakest of all the Trek captains that we've seen and he lacked the 'frontier spirit' that I was hoping to see.

What do your grievances about Archer have to do with your dislike of Trip?
I recall the Great and Powerful Picard having meals with Beverly Crusher. Her son got a considerable measure of favoritism. Nobody else's kids were allowed to routinely hang out on the bridge (With a thousand people on the ship, I suspect at least one or two other children would have benefited from the Very Special Attention Wesley got (and yes, I remember the Traveller urged Picard to give him every advantage, but so what? Maybe if the Traveller had spent five minutes with other exceptionally intelligent children on board they could have had a whole class of kids getting the advantage Picard granted Wesley (and what an amazing coincidence that Wesley was the son of longtime friends).
I recall Janeway having meals with Chakotay (like Trip, her second in command). And I also recall she once even stopped by when several members of the crew were in a holodeck bar and she joined in a game of pool. She was a longtime friend with Tuvok, was she supposed to dump him because one of her officers' nose was out of joint?
I take it I don't need to mention how much latitude Kirk routinely gave Spock and McCoy when it came to ship's discipline. In fact, he was also pretty tolerant of mistakes made by members of the lower ranks.

I recall several occasions where Trip was rude and sometimes even abusive to alien ambassadors and representatives. I don't recall him ever being disciplined formally for his behaviour. He should never have been anywhere near those kinds of diplomatic contacts and I think it was his friendship with Archer that cut him so much slack. McCoy was abrasive and had a consensual double-act going with Spock but I think he knew very well when to speak and when to shut up when dealing with foreign dignitories.

I seem to recall Kirk letting McCoy get away with quite a bit, including insubordination.

If you recall several occasions when Trip "got away with something" please cite them. To refresh your memory, click on the Enterprise Episode Guide at the top of this page, where you'll be able to read summaries/reviews of the episodes. Memory Alpha will also provide even more details.

 

[SFRabid]

The idea that the chief engineer on Earth's first warp five starship can't do differential equations and learnt his trade on motor boats is frankly ridiculous. But badly conceived ill-consistent characterisation was something of a problem with the series as a whole.

What episode mentioned that, that I may never, ever watch it (again)?!

There was a scene where Hoshi said she could never date someone like trip and mentioned that "she heard" that he learned his engineering skills by working on boat engines. I don't recall any scene speaking of his official degree but I would not expect them to hire a boat mechanic to work as an engineer in the warp 5 project.

 

[Pauln6]

Desert Crossing. Trip had repaired an alien's spaceship and was specifically invited by the grateful alien to join Archer for a visit to his homeworld.


What do your grievances about Archer have to do with your dislike of Trip?
I recall the Great and Powerful Picard having meals with Beverly Crusher. Her son got a considerable measure of favoritism. Nobody else's kids were allowed to routinely hang out on the bridge.

I take it I don't need to mention how much latitude Kirk routinely gave Spock and McCoy when it came to ship's discipline. In fact, he was also pretty tolerant of mistakes made by members of the lower ranks.

I seem to recall Kirk letting McCoy get away with quite a bit, including insubordination.

If you recall several occasions when Trip "got away with something" please cite them. To refresh your memory, click on the Enterprise Episode Guide at the top of this page, where you'll be able to read summaries/reviews of the episodes. Memory Alpha will also provide even more details.

Yikes! Don't use Wesley as justification for Trip's portrayal! Two wrongs don't make a right!

There was one episode where Tuvok crossed the line because he knew Janeway wouldn't and Janeway had to say - please don't do that - I need you to be MY moral compass.

And although Picard's friendship with Beverley did affect the way he treated her and Wesley, Patrick Stewart was brilliant at slipping into command mode and dressing somebody down. Archer was just much sloppier and as a result Trip was allowed to be sloppier.

I think they were aiming for a grouchy, insubordinate character to recapture the magic of the TOS triad. They tried and failed in season 2 of TNG and they tried failed in Enterprise. Trip was a much more enjoyable character when he was being schooled by T'Pol. McCoy was endearing since his outbursts were often based on humanitarian concerns, Trip was just petulant and annoying. I don;t hate Trip, he just irritated me more often than anybody else in Enterprise.

 

[star]

@Pauln6

See now, you're being more forthright here. McCoy is allowed to get away with stuff because he's endearing to you. Trip is not, therefore, it's egregious to you that he gets away with stuff (that you are unable to site specifically).

I believe JiNX asked for specifics because in your original posts you were posing an argument that Trip is annoying based on the fact that he abused his friendship with Archer and didn't receive proper discipline for actions you cannot cite specifically. (Hey, I get it -- I've only watched TNG & VOY once, so I can only argue based on my memories and impressions in those forums about characters and plots.)

The real matter here is that some kind of "abuse" has happened in every series. Trip just happened to rub you the wrong way, therefore you were not able to forgive his abuse as opposed to other characters in other series.

This kind of "abuse" happens in real life too. I'm a soldier's wife and often favoritism plays a huge role in the COC. Most honest men and women try to set aside their preferences for certain people over others when giving them opportunities for advancement or "forgetting" something stupid a soldier has done, but the truth is we're all human and not Vulcan.

I don't want to say that your opinion of Trip is wrong. Not in the least. I guess I'm just piping in to point out that it's not really that "Trip gets away with stuff" that irks you, but rather the character himself... as characters in other series that you like you are willing to overlook similar flaws.

I will admit that I HATED Trip when I saw "Broken Bow" but it had nothing to do with his character. After that decon scene (that I still don't care for), I figured he was the token "pretty boy" of ENT. I hate pretty boys.

But he won me over and I am a Tuckerite now. And the fact that CT in real life is a very down to earth family man makes it even better.

 

[od0_ital]

...
Even that shows poor thought on the part of the writers. They could easily have had the sphere attack Texas.

Come on, now...the Xindi weren't that stupid!

Bunch of aliens that look like various animals...the NX-01 would have been beaten to the Expanse by cowboys in pick-ups that had warp nacelles attached just so they could go a huntin' while yellin', "We still remember the Alamo, ya furry bastards!"

Instead of MACOs, Archer would have had a crew of Rangers, too. With phasers that look like six shooters.

Somehow I imagine a lot of banjo playing whilst on this trip. "We're gonna make you squeal like a Tellerite!"

Hey, now, we're talkin' about Texans, not those folks over in Georgia...

 

[MrPointy]

Trip got good after season 2. He was written as a giant moron up until then though.

 

[Pauln6]

Maybe I resented what I thought they were trying to achieve with Trip i.e. a McCoy clone more than the actual character himself. When I say he irritated more often than any of the others, that isn't to infer that I always found him irritating - possibly as few as a dozen occasions over several seasons. And I agree, the writing improved and the character improved (or it was a deliberate arc and the character was supposed to mellow as he learned more).

Neeelix for example was written to be deliberately annoying. Their mistake with him was that we so rarely got to see the 'real' Neelix below the gregarious facade. If they had shown more often just how hard he worked to keep it up and how he felt when he was alone and had nobody to 'perform' for, I think viewers would have stopped seeing him as annoying and started viewing him as tragic, which would have done wonders for the character.

I think as Trip developed we had shades of this creeping in. I think his relationship with T'Pol was one of the best written in Trek, with just the right level of detail and the tragedy of unrequieted love.

 

[commodore64]

I didn't say your opinion doesn't fly, only that the argument doesn't fly. There's a difference. It may very well be your opinion that it lessens the credibility of the character that he sounds more Texan than Floridian, and you may dislike him because of that.

Correction: I said I liked Trip, but felt like this thread opened up criticism. The character's accent is a criticism.

If we're arguing facts: we don't know if Trip has moved. It isn't based on any background we know about the character. You might argue we don't that it isn't the case - I suppose that's true. I'm just trying to go off the facts presented on screen - canon.

But it's just not a persuasive argument that a person sounding like he's from Texas when he's really from Florida is a "fatal" character flaw

That's not what I typed at all. I listed it as a criticism. I said I liked Trip, but he was my least favorite of the Enterprise crew. And then I clarified further to say I liked all the actors on Enterprise. I listed a few things I didn't like about the character, including his accent.

A fatal flaw in a character (not like hubris - an intentional flaw), in my book, is something that's so bad that it ruins the character so badly as to make me dislike them. I never said I can't stand the way he speaks so I refuse to watch Enterprise.

I rarely believe in absolutes. No character is perfect. No actor is perfect. I like things and dislike things about all of them, including my favorite: Archer.

So, to recap: your opinion is that Trip's accent works and my opinion is that it doesn't. Your argument is that he's moved around. Mine is: we don't know that; it's not canon. Your opinion is my living in Texas and Florida is irrelevant. My opinion is: that's all we have to work from with Trip.

Will people have accents a hundred years from now? Yeah, probably, but they probably will have evolved somewhat. My great-great grandchildren won't sound like the Kennedys (actually, nobody does), but I bet they'll still be dropping occasional Rs and swallowing Ts, and maybe even saying "wicked" a lot, whether they're still in Massachusetts or have migrated to Rhode Island, New Hampshire or Maine. And people will say they have a "New England" or Boston accent, regardless of where theIy're living.

You know, I wonder. I think accents have transformed quite a bit, after all about 200 years ago, many had British accents (which also sounded different about 200 years ago). I think we'll as a nation begin to sound more Mid-Western by the time Archer's gang is around. Although, that's another topic.

I think as Trip developed we had shades of this creeping in. I think his relationship with T'Pol was one of the best written in Trek, with just the right level of detail and the tragedy of unrequieted love.

I couldn't disagree more. And Trek already did unrequited love in DS9: Odo and Kira. Although, I didn't care for that much either, but found it more interesting than T'Pol and Trip's.