I am starting to really warm up to TOS

[number6]

The continuing issue with self proclaimed "true fans" isn't so much that anything produced post TOS isn't true to the original show. It isn't. Nor is it supposed to be, except the TOS films, which at that point is simply a matter of preference.

The shows that followed aren't supposed to be the same as TOS. The creative teams may choose to tweek characters and relationships as is their perogative to do so. The frustration is that the writers do what they choose and not as "we" tell them. Having seen what amateur writers and fans can come up with, mostly I think it's better for Trek as a whole to constantly attempt to bring new things to it instead of simply retelling the same person's vision in every iteration.

Despite much protesting and anguish in the 80s, fans of TOS warmed up to TNG and accepted it into the lexicon. They had no choice. The show was popular with non TOS fans who embraced that as "their" show. Those fans had just as much trouble accepting DS9, but warmed up to it and shows like VOY and ENT brought in new fans and old fans as well.. The new film captured the fun and adventure aspect of the Gene Coon era of TOS, but remade it for a younger audience.. Given the interviews I've read and seen and heard, the writers seem to understand what fans liked and disliked about Trek and are also trying to take it to the next level. I think the sequel to this could be good, but then I enjoyed this film. I have enjoyed pretty much all Trek to some degree, and while I tend to agree with some criticism of certain things, I don't think it's really that big of a deal and it doesn't take away from my willingness to check things out and make up my own mind on it. If I don't like something, I move on. I don't spend every day talking about it.

If someone watching this new stuff checks out TOS as a result, isn't that a good thing??

It's like enjoying Bram Stoker's Dracula and then checking out Nosferatu.

Or enjoying Amadeus and deciding to check out Mozart's work..

So someone likes JJTrek and as a result becomes a fan of TOS. That hurts us how?

 

[BillJ]

So someone likes JJTrek and as a result becomes a fan of TOS. That hurts us how?

No matter how much the new movie bothers me... it really comes down to this.

 

[Gary7]

I'm really glad to see folks who are new to Star Trek because of the 2009 movie, who then reach into the past to discover TOS and enjoy it. I'll bet part of it is the nostalgia. "Where did this whole idea come from?" And then you get to really see some of the appeal of what made Star Trek great. The characters. The stories. The envisioned technology. The anticipation of what intergalactic space relations could be. And remembering that this was the late 1960's, where much of what was done pushed the envelope, both in technique and budget.

 

[number6]

So someone likes JJTrek and as a result becomes a fan of TOS. That hurts us how?

No matter how much the new movie bothers me... it really comes down to this.

And along with that comes the anxiety over some new fan declaring the newer stuff to be better than the old stuff, something which even GR predicted.. I have to be honest, I would probably have a problem with that too. As good as any of the series or movies will ever be, TOS is the original, something future generations will not equally appreciate or understand.

 

[Gary7]

[RANT]
Why crave for everyone to feel about TOS as you do? To place judgement upon others for liking JJTrek first, then TOS, is just plain ridiculous. Everyone is entitled to their opinions and preferences. Why should anyone care if people even prefer the newer Trek over the older Trek? It's not like the old stuff will be cast aside. It exists. It has been remastered. It has been updated with modern CGI. It is done and there is no more to be added to the older versions. Just enjoy it as you would a classic movie.
[/RANT]

As for people not being able to appreciate TOS the way the "veteran Trekkies" do, that just comes with the territory. Growing up with TOS is a very different experience than for someone who is only now discovering it. Granted, there will be some people who have a penchant for being taken by the nostalgia and may actually like TOS best. But they will be an extreme minority.

The same is true for classic movies. As a young adult, seeing a Cary Grant & Grace Kelly movie in a Victorian style movie theater with all the bravado of the day is something you cannot reproduce today. Also, seeing something made in the context of the current day, having lived the days that are being mimicked in the movie, is a time-bound experience. Seeing those old movies with the minds of today that we have cannot truly appreciate the "original" feel of those movies.

Can you remember watching TOS when those kinds of special effects were seldom seen? That USS Enterprise ship design so forward futuristic, unlike any other space vessel imagined before? The breaking down of social barriers... seeing people of many races and nationalities working side-by-side on a space mission, in harmony? It was epic for its day. Yes, the young folks of today will miss the feeling of all that... they're reared on the lens flared short-attention-span camera cuts saturated with CGI action movies, which is what JJ Abrams delivered for them. They can't adopt the mindset of people who first watched TOS. Can you blame them? But if some can appreciate the original inspiration and start exploring it--great. I won't be fidgeting on the sidelines saying "but... they really don't get it!"

 

[number6]

Exactly.

 

[Noname Given]

[RANT - see two posts above... that's why I didn't fully quote it]

^^^
QFT (And I've been watching Star Trek since 1969)

 

[plynch]

beating the audience over the head with angst-ridden, dysfunctional families. . . . Fortunately Star Trek 2009 kept this nonsense to a minimum and was actually watchable.

To a minimum, yes. Still some there, though - the angsty boy child Kirk, cuz his pop is gone. And yet boys whose fathers die heroically tend to grow up venerating them, I have read somewhere.

Anyway:

I think XI lost something by giving us psycho-backstory (and psych is my original degree, and what I teach by the way) . . . instead of just presenting us with a hero archetype, fully formed, as the series did.

Peace to all. And Happy Festivus.

 

[Gojira]

So someone likes JJTrek and as a result becomes a fan of TOS. That hurts us how?

No matter how much the new movie bothers me... it really comes down to this.

And along with that comes the anxiety over some new fan declaring the newer stuff to be better than the old stuff, something which even GR predicted.. I have to be honest, I would probably have a problem with that too. As good as any of the series or movies will ever be, TOS is the original, something future generations will not equally appreciate or understand.

It is logical that newer fans will like the new movie over the old stuff. How many people prefer the movies of the 40s and 50s to todays movies? I am sure some do but they are in the minority.

I have a daughter that is 23 and she turns her nose up at any black and white movie. When I was young I liked the modern movies of my youth and not the movies of a generation ago.

I think there will be fewer and fewer young new fans of the original show and that process will happen with every Star Trek series.

 

[plynch]

I think there will be fewer and fewer young new fans of the original show and that process will happen with every Star Trek series.

Logical.

I wonder how Star Trek (TOS) will fare compared to Berman-era Trek at picking up new fans.

Original Trek is SUCH a part of the pop culture, and the original has that 60s vibe/look + Shat/Nimoy/Kelley: my hunch is it does or will do better than Berman-age Trek at picking up new fans.

But then, I'm biased.

Anybody have any data pro or con?

 

[BolianAuthor]

TOS was really ahead of its time, for what it was. I'm still amazed by how well some of the stories and drama hold up today.

 

[number6]

I think there will be fewer and fewer young new fans of the original show and that process will happen with every Star Trek series.

Logical.

I wonder how Star Trek (TOS) will fare compared to Berman-era Trek at picking up new fans.

Original Trek is SUCH a part of the pop culture, and the original has that 60s vibe/look + Shat/Nimoy/Kelley: my hunch is it does or will do better than Berman-age Trek at picking up new fans.

But then, I'm biased.

Anybody have any data pro or con?

Trek was never more popular than it was in the 90s with TNG, DS9 and VOY.. FC was one of the biggest money making films of the franchise, alongside TWOK and TrekXI.

Anyone who has a hunch that TOS did better than Berman Trek at gaining new fans is heavily biased. Sure without TOS we wouln't have had all those films and series, but without Berman we wouldn't have had those films and series either. Someone carried the torch after GR and that was Berman.. He deserves his due, much like JJAbrams will should the next bunch of films be successful enough to revive the TV franchise with another show.

 

[Gojira]

I think there will be fewer and fewer young new fans of the original show and that process will happen with every Star Trek series.

Logical.

I wonder how Star Trek (TOS) will fare compared to Berman-era Trek at picking up new fans.

Original Trek is SUCH a part of the pop culture, and the original has that 60s vibe/look + Shat/Nimoy/Kelley: my hunch is it does or will do better than Berman-age Trek at picking up new fans.

But then, I'm biased.

Anybody have any data pro or con?

Trek was never more popular than it was in the 90s with TNG, DS9 and VOY.. FC was one of the biggest money making films of the franchise, alongside TWOK and TrekXI.

Anyone who has a hunch that TOS did better than Berman Trek at gaining new fans is heavily biased. Sure without TOS we wouln't have had all those films and series, but without Berman we wouldn't have had those films and series either. Someone carried the torch after GR and that was Berman.. He deserves his due, much like JJAbrams will should the next bunch of films be successful enough to revive the TV franchise with another show.

But I think the important point is that original Trek with Kirk and Spock are universally recognized cultural icons and the popularity of Berman era Trek did nothing to change that.

There are few, if any, outside of Trek fandom who know who Sisko and Janeway are. But Kirk and Spock are mind melded into the collective cultural Zeitgeist of society. That won't change.

 

[number6]

Logical.

I wonder how Star Trek (TOS) will fare compared to Berman-era Trek at picking up new fans.

Original Trek is SUCH a part of the pop culture, and the original has that 60s vibe/look + Shat/Nimoy/Kelley: my hunch is it does or will do better than Berman-age Trek at picking up new fans.

But then, I'm biased.

Anybody have any data pro or con?

Trek was never more popular than it was in the 90s with TNG, DS9 and VOY.. FC was one of the biggest money making films of the franchise, alongside TWOK and TrekXI.

Anyone who has a hunch that TOS did better than Berman Trek at gaining new fans is heavily biased. Sure without TOS we wouln't have had all those films and series, but without Berman we wouldn't have had those films and series either. Someone carried the torch after GR and that was Berman.. He deserves his due, much like JJAbrams will should the next bunch of films be successful enough to revive the TV franchise with another show.

But I think the important point is that original Trek with Kirk and Spock are universally recognized cultural icons and the popularity of Berman era Trek did nothing to change that.

There are few, if any, outside of Trek fandom who know who Sisko and Janeway are. But Kirk and Spock are mind melded into the collective cultural Zeitgeist of society. That won't change.

That's true, though I have encountered more than a select few who refer to Trek as "that show with Picard."

 

[plynch]

You misread me, or maybe I was unclear. What I mean is now that BOTH TOS and Berman Trek are old, which will still draw new fans.

 

[Vance]

Trek was never more popular than it was in the 90s with TNG, DS9 and VOY.. FC was one of the biggest money making films of the franchise, alongside TWOK and TrekXI.

The downside is that while TOS had dated production values, the characters and most of the stories were effectively timeless, portraying human truths. TNG-ENT were very much products of the "Boomer Culture" and already look dated and "very 1990s" in all respects. That's really the difference between the two generations and their product...

 

[number6]

Trek was never more popular than it was in the 90s with TNG, DS9 and VOY.. FC was one of the biggest money making films of the franchise, alongside TWOK and TrekXI.

The downside is that while TOS had dated production values, the characters and most of the stories were effectively timeless, portraying human truths. TNG-ENT were very much products of the "Boomer Culture" and already look dated and "very 1990s" in all respects. That's really the difference between the two generations and their product...

The only post TOS series that has really aged poorly, imo, was TNG. ENT wasn't made in the 90s and seems to be aging better than I though, having recently rewatched a few episodes. Anyway our perception about how it has aged is irrelevant and strictly a matter of opinion.
Every Trek fan I have met in their 20s and 30s grew up on TNG and reruns of TNG. There is no argument from me on the timeless quality of TOS, but there is no downside at all for any fan who comes into it through the new stuff and decides to seek out and appreciate the old stuff. Again, that hurts us how, exactly?

 

[Sadara]

I'm 31 and TOS is by far my favorite. I grew up with TNG and it took me a few tries before I could make it through an entire TOS ep without laughing at the cheesy styrofoam rocks. Once I was able to look past that though I found the characters and plots to be so much more interesting.

 

[Noname Given]

I'm 31 and TOS is by far my favorite. I grew up with TNG and it took me a few tries before I could make it through an entire TOS ep without laughing at the cheesy styrofoam rocks. Once I was able to look past that though I found the characters and plots to be so much more interesting.

Cheesy Styrofoam rocks? Come one NOTHING is better that the custuming done for Friday's Child - with the rug and drapery scraps sewen on from the local Carpeteria store.

 

[plynch]

My son just got Star Trek 365 for Christmas. I note that there is not a TNG 365. (And I like TNG just fine. And VOY and DS9. I'm just sayin'.)