Hunt for Red October question

[Mr. Laser Beam]

There is an existing thread for The Hunt for Red October but it's three years since anyone's posted in it so I started a new one.

Anyhoo, I have one question: Exactly why does Loginov (the GRU spy) sabotage the Red October's caterpillar drive?

It can't have anything to do with Ramius' plan to defect, can it? No one on the boat should have found out about it yet.

 

[Jedi Marso]

Loginov, as a KGB plant, knows that the orders Ramius reads to the crew are fake. (He would have been aware of the ship's real mission orders). So he sabotages the drive so the Soviet Navy can locate her.

When he sees the Americans come aboard and knows the Red October is about to be turned over intact, he attempts to destroy her. Loginov, from the Soviet viewpoint, is a true patriot and hero- willing to sacrifice himself for the good of his nation.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Ah, that makes sense. I never considered that Loginov would have known what the real orders were.

 

[Jedi Marso]

Ah, that makes sense. I never considered that Loginov would have known what the real orders were.

Early on, he would have only known that Ramius was deviating from the actual operations orders. He probably eventually suspected that Ramius was planning a rogue missile launch (he did end up with both keys after the political officer's death), or that he was going to defect. At first, I'm sure his sabotage was an attempt to get the ship to return to port, or at least allow the Soviets to locate her. In the end, he was forced into desperate measures to try and keep her from falling into the hands of the Americans.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I wonder how many viewers had Loginov pegged as the spy as soon as they saw him. Tomas Arana just LOOKS like a badass, doesn't he?

 

[cardinal biggles]

I wonder how many viewers had Loginov pegged as the spy as soon as they saw him. Tomas Arana just LOOKS like a badass, doesn't he?

Not as soon as I saw him, but when you rewatch the movie it's pretty obvious that McTiernan was tipping him off as the GRU agent. I couldn't tell you the names of half the defecting officers, but they make a point of giving this guy a name, and then focus on him again when Ramius gives his speech about the orders. Must mean this is an Important Person.

 

[The Wormhole]

I knew it was him because I read the novel before I saw the movie. But to a first time viewer who hadn't read the novel, they might have been taken in by the surprise given he barely has a presence in the movie prior to the reveal.

 

[Haggis and tatties]

Becaushh heshh a KGB Shhpy and no doubt privvy to what washh in the shhecret orders, and that they are not being followed by Ramirez.........i mean Ramius.

 

[publiusr]

That’s “therapist,” Connery…

 

[cardinal biggles]

Oh, I'll play your game, you rogue.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Another question:

Anatoly (the blond haired sonar officer, he's also the one who welcomes the Americans aboard the boat) is wearing a stripe on his uniform - left arm, I think - which is white, with red and blue stripes, and has a star on it. Any idea what this stripe means?

 

[Jedi Marso]

Another question:

Anatoly (the blond haired sonar officer, he's also the one who welcomes the Americans aboard the boat) is wearing a stripe on his uniform - left arm, I think - which is white, with red and blue stripes, and has a star on it. Any idea what this stripe means?

Can't find any reference to it with my google-fu.

 

[FPAlpha]

In the beginning of the movie the political officer also states that he would be the last to know if the GRU had a spy on board, further cementing the assumption that Loginov must have known the full details of the original mission if he were to countercheck the political officer and the crew in general, thus he knew that something was up when the Red October went off course.

Such a great movie, i rewatch it at least once a year.

 

[cardinal biggles]

Another question:

Anatoly (the blond haired sonar officer, he's also the one who welcomes the Americans aboard the boat) is wearing a stripe on his uniform - left arm, I think - which is white, with red and blue stripes, and has a star on it. Any idea what this stripe means?

He's wearing it in the scene when Ramius returns to the conn to make his big speech, but he's not wearing it when Ryan, Mancuso, and Jonesy board the Red October. My google-fu was as ineffective as Jedi Marso's so my best guess is that's it's some sort of "officer of the watch" armband. I'll have to look and see if anyone else wears it next time I rewatch.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

He's wearing it in the scene when Ramius returns to the conn to make his big speech, but he's not wearing it when Ryan, Mancuso, and Jonesy board the Red October. My google-fu was as ineffective as Jedi Marso's so my best guess is that's it's some sort of "officer of the watch" armband. I'll have to look and see if anyone else wears it next time I rewatch.

I don't know Soviet uniforms all that well but on a basic naval level that would make sense. For the American Navy, it's a ballcap (or at least it is now, I don't know about the 80s).

But honestly, as incredibly impressive as the film is and I, too, regularly watch it, the film is not without its errors: The COB (chief of the boat) calls Jonesy "seaman" on at least one occasion (the storytelling scene, I believe) despite the fact he's clearly wearing petty officer second class crows. Hell of a thing for the COB to fuck that up. I love the film but that error always stands out to me.

 

[Jedi Marso]

I don't know Soviet uniforms all that well but on a basic naval level that would make sense. For the American Navy, it's a ballcap (or at least it is now, I don't know about the 80s).

But honestly, as incredibly impressive as the film is and I, too, regularly watch it, the film is not without its errors: The COB (chief of the boat) calls Jonesy "seaman" on at least one occasion (the storytelling scene, I believe) despite the fact he's clearly wearing petty officer second class crows. Hell of a thing for the COB to fuck that up. I love the film but that error always stands out to me.

Those are the sorts of things Hollywood commonly screws up, especially in this day and age when so few writers, actors, and directors have any sort of military background. That's one of the things I like about the 50's / 60's era war movies: so many people in the industry were veterans back then, they knew how to wear the uniforms, salute, comport themselves, and the small details tended to be looked after. Even small stuff like the number of sideboys when piping aboard a flag officer, etc.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Those are the sorts of things Hollywood commonly screws up, especially in this day and age when so few writers, actors, and directors have any sort of military background. That's one of the things I like about the 50's / 60's era war movies: so many people in the industry were veterans back then, they knew how to wear the uniforms, salute, comport themselves, and the small details tended to be looked after. Even small stuff like the number of sideboys when piping aboard a flag officer, etc.

Yup. Don't even get me started on ribbons. I can't tell you the number of times Oscar-winning films and Emmy-winning shows that have them out of order, upside down, or some other mess. From The West Wing to The Shape of Water (the latter of which also has the erroneous five-star general...). And those are the high-quality productions!

 

[FPAlpha]

Yup. Don't even get me started on ribbons. I can't tell you the number of times Oscar-winning films and Emmy-winning shows that have them out of order, upside down, or some other mess. From The West Wing to The Shape of Water (the latter of which also has the erroneous five-star general...). And those are the high-quality productions!

I understand the little errors that only professionals will catch but the big ones like misnaming a piece of hardware that could have been prevented by a one minute Google search is something that bugs me greatly because it is just lazy. Letting seasoned military personnel do things in the show/movie that they would never do in real life ( either because it's stupid and will get them killed or simply because the gear is not capable of it) for drama and action purposes - that i have come to accept.

Top Gun Maverick was one of the big hits this year and i'm regularly watching a Youtube channel of an ex-Fighter pilot, who reacts to military aviation movies/shows and anything other military airforce related - he loved the movie for what it is ( a work of fiction) but he and his buddies ripped the movie to pieces when it came to realism and logic. Highly entertaining and often enough you learn some details. Real military tactics are often enough just not that spectacular or photogenic - the military in real life would have solved the military problem in Top Gun by firing off a bunch of cruise missiles while electronic warfare planes would suppress enemy air defences, no high stakes trench runs and big dog fights though

 

[Shaka Zulu]

One stupid question: was the engineer able to repair the Caterpillar Drive? (It's been a while since I've seen it so I don't remember that bit.)

 

[Jedi Marso]

One stupid question: was the engineer able to repain the Caterpillar Drive? (It's been a while since I've seen it so I don't remember that bit.)

Yeah, he repaired it eventually. Red October was running silent again when she emerged from Red Route One near the Grand Banks, and Jonesy was able to track her, IIRC. I need to rewatch this.