Human Telepathy?
- Thread starter maryh
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Perhaps she was the first of the wave of "New Humans" as GR called them.
Humans in TOS were not totally incapable of telepathy. In WNMHGB, Elizabeth Denher claimed that her "ESPer rating was rather high." As was Gary Mitchell's. I feel it's fair to say that ESP is part and parcel with telepathy. I think the implication (and indeed the contemporary scientific theories of the 1960's) was that at least in some human people, there were latent extra sensory abilities which could be tapped.
So, no. It doesn't bother me in the slightest that Miranda Jones was telepathic, especially sense she had studied on Vulcan amongst true telepaths in order to hone her skills.
No problem at all!
--Alex
So, no. It doesn't bother me in the slightest that Miranda Jones was telepathic, especially sense she had studied on Vulcan amongst true telepaths in order to hone her skills.
No problem at all!
--Alex
Does the episode establish this? We know from WNMHGB that there are tests conducted by Starfleet on the ESP quotent of applicants.
Where No Man Has Gone Before said:
I agree that she was a good character, but that the kind of telepathy she displayed, has never been seen in a human yet. It would have been easy to make her come from a planet where the species were known to possess telepathy like she displayed. It kind of asks a little too much of "suspension of disbelief" that could easily have been fixed.
Remember when the rest of the crew first encountered Spock's mind meld? They were intrigued, scared, uncertain and mystified about it. And then in Season 3 they give us a full-fledged human with mega-telepathic abilities. If that be the case, Kirk et al should have been well versed about telepathy.
With since an easy "fix" available, I'm not sure why even made her human in the first place. Takes the mystery out of it, if it is encountered in humans, and raises doubts instead. We have no mechanism to explain it's existence if it's found in humans.
Not very familiar with all the episodes of the spin-offs. Was there ever another human that displayed that kind of telepathy?
If they ever rewrite these episodes, I'd change her race.
I think she was intended to be a mutant - or possibly someone whose genetic structure was altered by the Vorlons.. I mean Q. The fact that she had to be taught to control her abilities on Vulcan suggested that she was some kind of aberation.
If we can suspend disbelief to allow two aliens with different DNA and entirely different blood chemistry to produce offspring, I have no problem believing in a human telepath! Her abilities were powerful albeit hard to control but nowhere near the level of the average betazoid who can read thoughts in an instant with no effort at all. If Lwaxana had been sat at the dinner table we'd have had no story and I view that as a fundamental design flaw in betazoids. Miranda rocked.
If we can suspend disbelief to allow two aliens with different DNA and entirely different blood chemistry to produce offspring, I have no problem believing in a human telepath! Her abilities were powerful albeit hard to control but nowhere near the level of the average betazoid who can read thoughts in an instant with no effort at all. If Lwaxana had been sat at the dinner table we'd have had no story and I view that as a fundamental design flaw in betazoids. Miranda rocked.
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It would seriously alter who Miranda is and her relationship with Spock to make her just another alien telepath.
Is There No Truth In Beauty said:
As mentioned by Albertese and myself the idea that humans might have "ESP" abilities was established in WNMHGB. That between WNMHGB and ITNTIB the crew did not encounter isnt all that unbelievable. Its a big Galaxy.
Sounds like somebody trying to describe telepathic knowledge in terms that don't force her to admit that human telepathy exists...
"X knows what Y thinks because, er, X had a flash of insight."
Probably mankind agrees that telepathy would make a person dangerous (and more so than telekinesis or comparable powers, for obvious reasons), and Dehner wants to argue that Mitchell can't be considered dangerous. By that token, Miranda Jones would be considered dangerous, and thus be closely monitored. She had to study on Vulcan, she was risking insanity if she didn't get herself properly processed, her abilities were considered a definite threat by our heroes...
I'd say human telepathy is a known but rare phenomenon that is so frightening to our TOS heroes (as is all telepathy) that even (and perhaps especially) experts on the field try to belittle the concept. Vulcan telepathy is even less well known, and something big has to happen after Kirk's time to make Betazoids more or less accepted in the UFP. Say, a few telepaths doing a bit of PR work, or whatever name you give to the work a few telepaths will do on your mind.
Timo Saloniemi
It's always bothered me a bit--on the one hand, I'm glad they didn't ever really follow that part of the mythos up, and on the other, it really does stick out like a sore thumb the way it stands.
I'd have to watch the episode again to know for sure, but is there a line that unambiguously identifies her as human? Like, "ah, but you are human, Miranda Jones," that kind of thing?
I'd have to watch the episode again to know for sure, but is there a line that unambiguously identifies her as human? Like, "ah, but you are human, Miranda Jones," that kind of thing?
One little wrinkle: Miranda said she's "never been to Earth" when Kirk takes her on a diversionary tour of the ship's arboretum. That's not a conclusive slam on the notion of her being human (or not). If her heritage were indeed Terran, she must be descended from Terrans who migrated offworld before her birth.
They could have dragons and wizards too!
KIRK: Yes, I think most of us are attracted by beauty and repelled by ugliness. One of the last of our prejudices. At the risk of sounding prejudiced, gentlemen, here's to beauty. To Miranda Jones, the loveliest human ever to grace a starship.
Didn't you assume that Spock's conception was genetically helped along? We have some abilities for genetic engineering already. The concepts for the possibility and methodology exist.
Sci-Fi does accept telepathy, even if it has no explanation or methodology for it's existence (and is currently NOT accepted by the real scientific community). But the common thread for all TOS was that mankind would be basically just like we are now. Only the technology, knowledge, experience etc would change between then and now. Humans would still be humans and we could relate to them. It drove the series. To violate that premise and invent a human mind-reader pushes the disbelief too far.
I don't follow that at all. He has never met her before and doesn't have a relationship that requires her to be human.
Agreed. And was easily fixable.
There are many other instances f different races breeding naturally (and in some cases accidentally) without genetic help.
I must confess, I never felt that her telepathy violated an inviolable premise. Humans can develop ESP and other powers with outside help - in Miranda's case that 'help' could have occurred before she was born. A far worse sin is Captain Garth's ability to shape change, which he just 'learned'. It isn't even spelled out that it is the shape-changing talent that has driven him mad, although I think most people have drafted that in as an excuse to prevent it being used as a plot device again. We can assume that the aliens altered his DNA as part of the healing process with unintended consequences but none of that comes from the episode itself. I think Miranda is a far lesser violation if you want to call it that.
Then you clearly haven't payed attention to the episode, especially the parts about Miranda's life and background. Also her relationship with Kollos and how that colors her interactions with Spock.
Are these things only possible if she is a human? How so?
Being a telepath is hard on her. Its not normal for humans and it nearly drove her mad. ( Thats why her being human is important. Being an alien makes her being a telepath less "difficult") Training on Vulcan saved her life and her sanity. But she is still on edge. Spock being a Vulcan, a "normally" telepathic species, is a threat to her. She feels that he can more readily communicate with Kollos and that Kollos might prefer Spock to her. ( Spock was actually offered the job but turned it down). The episode is built around jealousy. Miranda and Spock. Marvick and Kollos.
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