How'd they get into the Nexus in the first place?
- Thread starter Fedaykin
- Start date
Their commentary is actually quite good. They're very candid about what did and didn't work, and the creative process (somewhat rushed, and dictated from on high) that went into scripting Generations.
MOnty Python and the Holy Grail come to mind for some reason!
And almost NONE of GEN makes sense, I wasn't just picking on the Nexus.
RAMA
Not long ago, some poster here listed all of the problems with the nexus storyline. I never realized that there were so many holes in that plot. My biggest problem was that it returned to our solar system every 39.2 years and nobody knew about it. Did no one ever notice it? Wouldn't we know about it even now? If not, certainly humans would have studied it when they were exploring our solar system in the late 21st c. In GEN it's 300 years later and the nexus would've come 'round maybe 8 or 9 times. Did no one at Starfleet feel it was worth studying? It should've been followed and studied at least after it nearly destroyed the E-B. In addition, why didn't Picard go back even farther in time to prevent Soran from building his missle, or even farther back to any other advantageous point in time? Why did he have to leave right away? Time has no meaning in the nexus so he could stay there a week, a month, a year, or even an eternity and then return to any point in time and to any place in the universe and still prevent Soran from destroying Veridian III. In fact, Picard could've gone back in time to prevent the Borg from assimilating him or from being made aware of the Federation. Or he could've prevented or caused any historical event, perhaps even future event if time truly had no meaning in the nexus. Why not? Kirk did. The more I think about this movie the less I like it. Ignorance is bliss for me and GEN.
I just assume that GEN is dipicting events where the audience just isn't given the full picture. That it all makes sense "in universe" but is never explained correctly.
We know that blowing up stars isn't the only way in: Kirk made it in by getting sucked out of a hull breach! Of course, Soran didn't know that. My guess is, he tried something less radical: transporter and/or spacesuit and almost got himself killed. He was clearly going for the less risky path for HIMSELF.
The Nexus is really a huge plot device, so it doesn't make 100% sense. Why didn't Picard go back and save his family, then just arrest Soran and save the people on the station from the Romulan attack? I find it best to just assume that there is some sort of time limit on going backwards. Or maybe Picard is very strictly following the temporal Prime directive and causing as little interference as possible.
We know that blowing up stars isn't the only way in: Kirk made it in by getting sucked out of a hull breach! Of course, Soran didn't know that. My guess is, he tried something less radical: transporter and/or spacesuit and almost got himself killed. He was clearly going for the less risky path for HIMSELF.
The Nexus is really a huge plot device, so it doesn't make 100% sense. Why didn't Picard go back and save his family, then just arrest Soran and save the people on the station from the Romulan attack? I find it best to just assume that there is some sort of time limit on going backwards. Or maybe Picard is very strictly following the temporal Prime directive and causing as little interference as possible.
There'd be an automatic time limit there from the sheer unpredictability of events, I'd guess. If Picard went back far enough to grab Soran at the observatory, he'd have to leave the Duras sisters at large, supposedly with a starkiller weapon at their possession. If Picard merely went back a few moments, he'd have a situation with minimal variables instead: the Durases under the guns of the Federation flagship, Soran isolated on the arid surface of an empty planet, and a strictly known timetable of events that Soran would predictably follow.
If Picard tried to go farther back in time, say, to save Reneé, where would he stop? Surely he'd feel obligated to save all the victims of Locutus, too! Eventually, he'd be going back to his childhood to remake his whole life - until he'd remember the lesson he got in "Tapestry".
Timo Saloniemi
Why risky? He could have tried it again and again, an infinite number of times! Until he succeeded, that is.
Not really in our solar system: the E-B had to go to high warp for some time to reach it. But close to Earth anyway.
However, it's not stated that the phenomenon would return to near Earth during each cycle. It's only said that it returns from outside the galaxy at those intervals - its path could be predictable, but it need not be constant.
And it's not as if the phenomenon is ever said to be unknown to Federation science. It could well be one navigational hazard among thousands reported in the region, ultimately uninteresting from the scientific viewpoint - that is, until somebody goes in, realizes it actually harbors this cool otherworld, and is then torn out to tell his or her story.
Timo Saloniemi
Not really in our solar system: the E-B had to go to high warp for some time to reach it. But close to Earth anyway.
However, it's not stated that the phenomenon would return to near Earth during each cycle. It's only said that it returns from outside the galaxy at those intervals - its path could be predictable, but it need not be constant.
And it's not as if the phenomenon is ever said to be unknown to Federation science. It could well be one navigational hazard among thousands reported in the region, ultimately uninteresting from the scientific viewpoint - that is, until somebody goes in, realizes it actually harbors this cool otherworld, and is then torn out to tell his or her story.
Timo Saloniemi
Assuming Soran didn't shoot and kill them both before the Nexus arrived. They were unarmed. That would've sucked.
The Nexus passes 3 lightyears from our star system.
In dialogue, Harriman states that they will travel to pluto and back. When they get the distress call, Ms. Sulu locates the ships 3 lightyears away.
Since when did blowing up stars become the easy way out?
Forget the rest. To me, this reflects the producers' boredom with the marvels of our galaxy. In "Corbomite" we boggled at a mere alien buoy. Now we need exploding suns.
Outer space has gotten increasingly small.
Forget the rest. To me, this reflects the producers' boredom with the marvels of our galaxy. In "Corbomite" we boggled at a mere alien buoy. Now we need exploding suns.
Outer space has gotten increasingly small.
I have to agree, the audio commentary for Generations is one of the funniest things I ever heard. RDM and Braga are a delight to listen to.
Three light years is pretty close, relatively speaking. Our telescopes of the 23 c should've been able to detect it easily, if not the explorers of that time. Also, how could Picard have easily "tried it again and again an infinite number of times?" Getting back into the nexus might be easier than the way Soran was trying but it's not like Picard could just jump back into it. The whole nexus premise is very weak.
As said, this assumes that it would travel the same route every time. That would in fact be extremely unlikely: if such minute changes in gravity as the redistribution of a star's mass from the first few hours of a nova-like explosion can alter the path of the phenomenon, then more significant changes such as the wanderings of stars and planets during 40 years would certainly bend the route to a new shape on every pass.
He wouldn't need to - he was already in. The inside Picard could just observe the demise of yet another outside Picard and sally forth again, this time with a Plan H that was so much better than Plan G had been.
In fact, given the setup, it's probable that examples of Picard and Kirk are still in the Nexus and capable of stepping out whenever and wherever they wish.
I'd rather say it's full of potential. A fraction of it was used in the movie, leaving us wanting more...
Timo Saloniemi
Timo, only the echoes of Kirk and Picard remain in the Nexus. Guinan's echo could not step out and help Picard, so why would Picard's echo be any different? I thought you meant that they could try again multiple times because they would get swept up into the Nexus if they were still alive when it reached the planet.
Guinan was ripped out of the Nexus by Scotty's tractor beam before she could settle in. In contrast, Picard, Kirk and (on his third try) Soran were all sucked in for good, and should live in bliss there ever after.
I'd argue the Picard that got out of Nexus again is the echo... Or more probably just the ultimate fantasy that the real Picard wants to live out in the Nexus.
Timo Saloniemi
I'd argue the Picard that got out of Nexus again is the echo... Or more probably just the ultimate fantasy that the real Picard wants to live out in the Nexus.
Timo Saloniemi
The rift was quite tiny. We see it in real-scale on the planet, and the thing is only I'd guess a few miles wide and very narrow. At 3 lightyears it would be pretty hard to see from Earth unless it was giving out a lot more energy than it seemed to be. I'd say its very tiny size makes it somewhat plausable.
I think it's possible that Picard and Kirk and Soran all got their immortality in the Nexus. If time truly has no meaning there, then once in, always in. I think it's an interesting thoght that the Picard/Kirk that came out may be 'avatars' of a sort. If any thought can become reality, then sending a duplicate self to the real world to take care of business shouldn't be too hard...
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Why do people think that if you enter the Nexus, but leave on your own, that an echo of you remains?
There's no real evidence one way or the other. However, since Guinan had an echo in the Nexus after leaving it, why not others? She didn't say it had anything to do with being yanked out.
Like most things to do with the Nexus, the available material supports more than one interpretation. Pick whichever one suits your fancy.
I though Guinan had an echo because she was forcable removed, and maybe the transporter only got 'some" of her.
