How would you improve Insurrection?

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by The Overlord, Jul 31, 2012.

  1. The Overlord

    The Overlord Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Nov 26, 2010
    We already had a thread discussing how to improve Nemesis, so I thought it be fun to to discuss ways to improve Insurrection.

    Sfdebris had the idea of making the moral conflict more grey and having half the crew side with the Federation and the other half side withe Ba'ku.
  2. Dantheman

    Dantheman Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Oct 27, 2011
    Michigan USA
    I would've gone with Sfdebris' idea as well, and I probably would also suggest not rushing it, giving it rewrites and such. I have this conspiracy theory that INS was rushed into development so Paramount could have a Star Trek movie in theaters before Star Wars Episode One The Phantom Menace was released, for whatever reasons you can come up with.
  3. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Jan 30, 2001
    Go back before they started writing the film and make sure that Stewart and Spiner have absolutely no input. Then go with Piller's idea of serium krellide as the basis for all Federation medical technology.

    Make the Ba'ku likable, drop the S'ona and make it a purely Starfleet vs. Starfleet affair.
  4. Silversmok3

    Silversmok3 Commander Red Shirt

    Nov 12, 2008
    Its so easy, anyone can do it. First, find a paper shredder and stick the entire original script into it.

    Take clean sheet of paper, and begin. Repeat 1000 times, add a spice of $$$ ,and voila!A better Insurrection!
  5. Quinton O'Connor

    Quinton O'Connor Commodore Commodore

    Apr 3, 2010
    Durham, NC
    Sean Connery as Dougherty.
  6. gottacook

    gottacook Captain Captain

    Apr 27, 2005
    Get rid of the apostrophes.
  7. ALF

    ALF Commodore Commodore

    Mar 12, 2005
    Maybe make it about something interesting?
    Fountain of Youth stories are so lame.
    Rewrite it with the weird-ass aliens from S1's Conspiracy. I want to see Riker eat maggots again.
  8. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Jun 15, 2012
    Sfdebris had a good idea with the whole "family fight" thing. If you look at Insurrection, all the parts are there for a very dramatic and powerful story. It was just horribly thrown together.

    It certainly doesn't help that the Baku are so self-righteous and entitled that I have a very hard time feeling sorry for them. They apparently don't even consider the prospect of the 600 of them living out a normal life to help out billions. "No our immortality is too more important than those outsiders petty lives. Now fight our war for us, and get me a martini while I wait."
  9. inflatabledalek

    inflatabledalek Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Jun 7, 2011
    In fairness though, based on Piller's book, the first script was thrown out without Stewart ever seeing it. Berman rejected it based on what he thought the lead might say, which is hardly Stewart's fault. If anything he seemed to have brought it back closer to the original idea.

    And I also think Spiner should have been listened to more, his concerns that Data was being written appalling in a style that ignored years of character development was pretty much bang on the money. Frankly I wish he'd been prepared to make more of a push against it.

    Hell, if the studio's notes (especially the one on making the Ba' Ku argument stronger) had been listened to more we'd have a better film. And how often is that the case?
  10. Use of Time

    Use of Time Commodore Commodore

    Jul 25, 2012
    Va. Beach, VA
    To me a movie has to be daring and provide lasting changes to the Star Trek universe. This story could have been an episode in a bottle in the grand scheme of things. If you removed it from canon what effect does it really have on the progression of Star Trek? Nothing. It's all wrapped up in nice little bow in the end and our heroes warp off to the next assignment just like every episode of the TNG series. We've never hear of the Son'a or the Bak'u and we likely never will again. There is absolutely no emotional attachment to these new species and I found myself hardly caring what happend to either by the end.
  11. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

    Nov 5, 2008
    King Daniel Beyond
    Replace Dougherty with Dr Evil. And Ru'afo with Darth Vader. And instead of that HMS Pinafore song, they sing the Team America theme.

    A Trek movie you will NEVER forget!
  12. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

    Jul 2, 2009
    Yeah, it was painful reading about that. Stewart would have liked the original draft, but they simply threw it away without ever showing it to him. And when the said he liked the Fountain of Youth story, they never returned to the original draft.

  13. Captaindemotion

    Captaindemotion Vice Admiral Admiral

    May 26, 2001
    Whatever flaws this movie may have had, I wouldn't lay any of them at the feet of Anthony Zerbe.

    Anyway, given that Dougherty wasn't the main villain (that was Ra'fu who was played by Oscar-winner F Murray Abraham), I don't think it would have made sense to have him played by an iconic actor like Connery. The role was better suited to a respected character actor like Zerbe, than a legend.
  14. Mage

    Mage Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Jun 17, 2007
    I like Insurrection, so I wouldn't change a lot. I agree with the moral dillema, feeling that the needs of the many don't always outweigh the needs of the few.

    Take out the silly boob joke and pimple joke, and to me it's still a fun film. I will agree that as a film, FC was better. But to me, Insurrection was the better Trek movie.
  15. RyuRoots

    RyuRoots Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Apr 23, 2009
    By throwing it out entirely and making a movie about the liberation of Betazed instead. There are things you could do to make INS less terrible, but nothing short of a complete rewrite would make it good.
  16. sonak

    sonak Vice Admiral Admiral

    Jul 13, 2007
    in a figment of a mediocre mind's imagination
    I'm not sure the original premise has much promise, anyway, but I'll try modifying it instead of throwing the whole thing out.

    -make the Baku more sympathetic and make them a real civilization of thousands or millions rather than a tiny village of squatters. Have them actually be connected to the planet as their home rather than some place they stumbled upon 300 years ago.

    -take Dougherty and the other side's arguments more seriously. Make him convincing and have some of the senior officers side AGAINST Picard, as they probably would if we're being realistic.

    -darker tone, less "silliness."(pimples, boob jokes, etc.)

    -make the dilemma more balanced by not having the stakes be a revolutionary medical resource that HELPS BILLIONS. Have the resource be something like a new fuel source or something that would help the UFP in the war.
  17. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

    Jul 2, 2009
    Hey, that's Avatar. ;)
  18. ssosmcin

    ssosmcin Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Sep 2, 2002
    One thing I wouldn't do is tie Insurrection in with the Dominion War, or any of the films in with the continuity of whatever TV series was running at the time (this has been suggested more than a few times over the years). The film has to stand on its own to appeal to a broader audience, not only at the time of release but also in its afterlife. The films are not slotted into the syndication reruns of any series. Insurrection could be played anywhere at any time. A 10 pm showing on HBO would reach more casual viewers who might stop at the movie and check it out. By tying the films into the TV series too closely, one takes a chance of losing that audience, who has to be brought up to speed. It would be like running a random episode without any of the others around it. If it is a standalone episode, no problem. If it's a vital cog in the ongoing arc, then it's not as effective.

    Sure, a few lines of dialog could probably do it, but the farther away in time we get from a discontinued TV show, the less relevant it becomes. Tying the film directly to it would make it less important because it's slaved to another show rather than the series the film actually is a sequel of. If you're going to tie a TNG movie to any series, it should be TNG itself. But I always preferred the movies to work on their own, so one wouldn't need to follow the series to get it.
  19. Tiberius

    Tiberius Commodore Commodore

    Sep 28, 2005
    Get rid of Starfleet as the bad guys.

    Have it so the Sona are there with the permission of Starfleet, who thinks they are conducting scientific research on the magical properties of the rings. Data found out that they are really planning to harness those powers (which will destroy all life on the surface), and that's why he went crazy. The Enterprise goes to get him back after the Sona demand that Starfleet removes him. That way it turns into Starfleet (in the form of the Enterprise) against the Sona, making the central conflict more clear cut. The grey area comes from whether it is right to sacrifice one planet to save billions, not whether the other Starfleet guy is your enemy or not.
  20. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Jan 30, 2001
    Subtract your first sentence and that's pretty much the movie in a nutshell.

    I'd much rather it be Starfleet vs. Starfleet than being exposed to yet another rubber faced alien we will never see again.