How Would You Have Handled The Borg Threat?

[Herbert]

I agree with @Herbert they changed their story, in Q Who I totally felt those Borg babies were born naturally and implanted with their computer parts from birth.

It's kind of hard not to believe that and if you don't have the later comments by Seven stating otherwise then you'd believe it. We all would. I believe they purposely changed the Borg from what we see in that first episode. Wouldn't be the first time something like that happened and it won't be the last

 

[Marynator]

Yes! You've got to expect that in stories? Especially in like a tv show such as Star Trek, where your show goes over years with so many different writers, sometimes they just have to change something a little bit to tell their current story?

 

[Sophie74656]

With an entity like the borg it's not unreasonable. They came across a new technology that made something they do more efficient so they use that technology. They evolve all the time.

 

[Herbert]

Yes! You've got to expect that in stories? Especially in like a tv show such as Star Trek, where your show goes over years with so many different writers, sometimes they just have to change something a little bit to tell their current story?

Yup, and that's why I struggle so much with all the threads on this board by people who just have to come up with "in universe" explanations for things that can easily be explained away as continuity errors, or simply the fact that Star Trek has existed for 40+ years and is a result of hundreds of creators all wanting to tell their stories and their vision, at the expense of one coherent overarching universe. Story trumps internal consistency. Every. Single. Time

 

[Marynator]

Yup, and that's why I struggle so much with all the threads on this board by people who just have to come up with "in universe" explanations for things that can easily be explained away as continuity errors, or simply the fact that Star Trek has existed for 40+ years and is a result of hundreds of creators all wanting to tell their stories and their vision, at the expense of one coherent overarching universe. Story trumps internal consistency. Every. Single. Time

I mean, I feel totally different with shows like Babylon 5 or Game of Thrones, where you know there's like a single vision for how things are going to be, and an impression that everything really matters as part of some larger tapestry you're looking at, but I feel Star Trek is so radically different, it's about individual stories and they're more about telling a good story now and not so concerned with creating some documented history of our galaxy or something?

 

[DonIago]

I always assumed the "Q-Who" baby was homegrown, not assimilated, and I don't see any reason why the Borg can't have it both ways in any case, so that's my personal continuity.

 

[Mutai Sho-Rin]

It was assimilated. Presumably the borg assimilated the crew of a ship and someone on that ship had a baby with them.

Or was pregnant and delivered the baby into Borg hands.

 

[Sophie74656]

Or was pregnant and delivered the baby into Borg hands.

Possibly. Either way they've said they dont "reproduce"

 

[Mojochi]

I don't see any reason why what is clearly a continuity alteration like this can't redefine how we view the show's in-universe reality. When I saw the Borg infant, like everyone else, I assumed it meant they reproduce, but if someone comes along later & redefines what I saw, I'm not so closed off to reject that new take, & dismiss it as "Oh, it's just a show, & we shouldn't expect to make sense of it"

That's why boards like this exist. So we can come together and do that very thing. I was fine with Riker seeming to know they reproduce, when he said it, but if later it's stated more concretely that they don't, then I'm also fine reassessing my interpretation of that scene, & now thinking Riker may have just been speculating, & perhaps the baby was assimilated. If that helps us make better sense of the overall show, what's the harm? Sure, we won't be able to have it work out that way with every example, but in this case, it's fine

It's a discussion board. If people are going to get bent out of shape over us speculating, for the purpose of providing ourselves with a more defined viewing experience, then folks who are taking it too seriously are the ones trying to shut down our fun. Hell, some of the best fan fiction only exists to fill in those blanks in the very same way. It's perfectly healthy to do it

 

[M.A.C.O.]

I don't see any reason why what is clearly a continuity alteration like this can't redefine how we view the show's in-universe reality. When I saw the Borg infant, like everyone else, I assumed it meant they reproduce, but if someone comes along later & redefines what I saw, I'm not so closed off to reject that new take, & dismiss it as "Oh, it's just a show, & we shouldn't expect to make sense of it"

That's why boards like this exist. So we can come together and do that very thing. I was fine with Riker seeming to know they reproduce, when he said it, but if later it's stated more concretely that they don't, then I'm also fine reassessing my interpretation of that scene, & now thinking Riker may have just been speculating, & perhaps the baby was assimilated. If that helps us make better sense of the overall show, what's the harm? Sure, we won't be able to have it work out that way with every example, but in this case, it's fine

It's a discussion board. If people are going to get bent out of shape over us speculating, for the purpose of providing ourselves with a more defined viewing experience, then folks who are taking it too seriously are the ones trying to shut down our fun. Hell, some of the best fan fiction only exists to fill in those blanks in the very same way. It's perfectly healthy to do it

With that being said, we should get back to the title topic and question. Hehe, we got sidetracked discussing Borg reproduction, instead of how Feddie captains and admirals should deal with the Borg.

 

[Mojochi]

^True enough @M.A.C.O.

IMHO, a dead Borg IS a liberated Borg. It's a plague. They aren't just slaves, they're afflicted, & to some extent always will be, & unless the potential exists to "Save" all of them, & return them to who they were, then it seems the only way to help them is to end them.

As much as we can value the person Hugh & Seven become, they really aren't the people they were before assimilation. To my knowledge, Picard is the only person that managed that stroke of good fortune. For nearly any other drone, the person they were is lost. So killing the Borg drone they are is a courtesy. Nothing entered into the arc has changed my mind of that. If I'm never coming back, then what's lost by killing me? Some other unrelated person that has to relearn how to be a functioning human being? Sorry, never met him, & don't really care, if it's a choice of ridding the galaxy of a threatening plague.

 

[Marynator]

It's a discussion board. If people are going to get bent out of shape over us speculating, for the purpose of providing ourselves with a more defined viewing experience, then folks who are taking it too seriously are the ones trying to shut down our fun. Hell, some of the best fan fiction only exists to fill in those blanks in the very same way. It's perfectly healthy to do it

You're so definitely right, and I'm very sorry, I definitely don't want to ruin your fun. I feel maybe I'm having a bit of an overreaction because some people did get very silly with nitpicking too far? I'm going to try to be more fun about it, maybe somewhere in the middle? Like, discussing things and speculating, but not being waaay too rigid when something's obviously not intentional at all? I feel when the writers have to change their story a little because they have a new idea that doesn't totally fit with something I totally understand that, but I feel different if say one time Jonathan Frakes spilled coffee on his pants and no one noticed and now we're saying it's some great conspiracy by the Romulans to subvert the Federation?

@M.A.C.O. so sorry we kind of went on a tangent! I still feel I love how Jean-Luc did things, and I completely agree with him how you can't commit genocide, even when your enemy's trying to do so to you. I sadly disagree with you @Mojochi, because in Descent we saw many liberated Borg wanting to join Hugh, they were just lost and confused so they followed Lore and allowed him to control him, but without him I feel more would've followed Hugh? I'd love to see whatever became of his colony?

 

[Herbert]

I don't see any reason why what is clearly a continuity alteration like this can't redefine how we view the show's in-universe reality. When I saw the Borg infant, like everyone else, I assumed it meant they reproduce, but if someone comes along later & redefines what I saw, I'm not so closed off to reject that new take, & dismiss it as "Oh, it's just a show, & we shouldn't expect to make sense of it"

That's why boards like this exist. So we can come together and do that very thing. I was fine with Riker seeming to know they reproduce, when he said it, but if later it's stated more concretely that they don't, then I'm also fine reassessing my interpretation of that scene, & now thinking Riker may have just been speculating, & perhaps the baby was assimilated. If that helps us make better sense of the overall show, what's the harm? Sure, we won't be able to have it work out that way with every example, but in this case, it's fine

It's a discussion board. If people are going to get bent out of shape over us speculating, for the purpose of providing ourselves with a more defined viewing experience, then folks who are taking it too seriously are the ones trying to shut down our fun. Hell, some of the best fan fiction only exists to fill in those blanks in the very same way. It's perfectly healthy to do it

You're absolutely right. It's a discussion board but that goes both ways. if someone wants to promote various theories then they should expect that they are going to get challenged on some or all of them. If it's a true discussion, then you need many viewpoints. I personally think that taking these hypotheticals to the Nth degree is taking things too seriously. Me challenging your take on things isn't ruining your fun, it's just a different view. This place shouldn't be a safe space where nothing gets debated or challenged. If you're putting your opinions out there, then you have to expect that there will be some people who do not agree with you. That's when you put on your big boy (or girl) pants and deal with it.

 

[Qonundrum]

So where does that infant come from?

Infants abducted along with beings of all age ranges could be assimilated. Maturation chambers exist, but nowhere has it been conclusively stated or shown that there are babies plopping out of selected drones with technological implants grafted in afterward.

That or a stork.

Or the idea where the original intent in "Q Who" was actual birthing by drones became retconned due to 7of9.

(And Riker was assuming. Regardless if the Borg, in season 2, were considered as an ongoing threat, they might have had characters making guesses and being wrong later. Like the computer virus vs "teach them individuality" trope, the latter being attempted and failed far worse than anyone's expectations despite it technically succeeding. Good ol' Lore.)

 

[Herbert]

That or a stork.

Was the stork assimilated?

 

[Nyotarules]

I would use the virus to rid the galaxy of the Borg plague, not doing anything allows millions if not billions to be assimilated.
If you follow the novelverse, the creation of the Borg is all humanity's fault anyway.

 

[DonIago]

Well, not exclusively humanity's fault...

 

[M.A.C.O.]

Found an old tweet from Braga regarding the Borg and the Queen.

"We created the Queen in First Contact to give the Borg a voice. Mindless zombies otherwise."
https://twitter.com/BrannonBraga/status/612057308202336256

Now, we all know the Borg have been space zombies since their introduction. However, if we take the zombie analogy to it's extreme and compare it to other zombie IPs (Night of the Living Dead, Resident Evil, Zombieland, Dawn of the Dead, etc), wiping out the Borg doesn't seem as immoral.

Sure, you can rescue (vaccinate) those infected. However, the Borg can rebuild their ranks faster than the Federation can save them.

The Borg float between near rescue and lost cause.

 

[Marynator]

I have a question, maybe I'm misunderstanding how I'm reading these message boards? Since our discussion is in TNG, should we only be using The Next Generation episodes as sources for information, and not movies or later series, otherwise we'd be in General Trek, right? My personal feeling is each series can be so very different from each other and with different tones and purposes, sometimes they don't even really go well together? Please correct me if I'm totally wrong.

@M.A.C.O. what about a movie like I Am Legend, where those zombies were really more like mutants and can be cured? I do feel we've seen with Locutus and Hugh Borg can definitely be made [back?] into good people, so if there's that possibility don't you have every responsibility to try and not just murder everyone?

 

[DonIago]

I don't think there's a hard prohibition on discussing Trek series based on what sub-forum a thread resides in, as long as you're staying on-topic.Indeed, it may be more appropriate for this thread to be in a more generalized forum.

Now, if the OP wanted discussion limited in such a manner, they could say/have said so; I don't recall anything along those lines.