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How would you have ended "Voyager"?

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I would have had them stay in the Delta Quadrant (well, those who wanted to). I see it as a perfect very Star Trek kind of idea. After so long together and after so much, they have become the family they need. They then realize that while they're out here, they really are going where no one has gone before...

To me, that would have been very Trek.
 
Considering Janeway's obssession in returning to the Alpha Quadrant, I don't see that happening. Even if I prefer that they had remained in the Delta Quadrant. Because what happened to them in the novels that followed, made me want to hurl.


I am one of the most devoted Voyager fans around here and I still don't like season 7. :( There are only handful of good episodes, two brilliant (these being Shattered and Lineage).


This is one fan who enjoyed Season 7 a lot. I thought it was a hell of a lot better than Seasons 1, 2 and 6. I also enjoyed episodes like "Drive", "Imperfection", "Workforce", "Friendship One", "Flesh and Blood", "Critical Care", "Body and Soul", "Prophecy", "Homestead" and "Endgame".
 
Drive was the best episode ever, because Tom and B'Elanna stopped the bullshit contrived 24 style ticking bomb super adventure of the week to talk about the last 6 years, their emotions, their relationship and how they were going to proceed from now on that everything was truthfully on the table. The ramifications from that conversation exploded into every subsequent episode until the show completed.

It was awesome because things changed. Things changed without the Borg or the introduction of a new set of breasts or a new set/toy/super shuttle or a season cliffhanger, things changed because the characters needed to grow and some one on the writing staff was "allowed" to get away with it.

The rest of the episodes on that list were bullshit contrived 24 style ticking bomb super adventure of the week that had zero impact on the larger story of voyager and could have been set during almost any other season... Well apart from B'Elanna's belly bun, but she was still expressing a new emotional weakness she had barely touched on before and never mentioned again. Okay maybe Prophecy touched back on Faces form season one, but that would mean that she had been lying to herself for six years and the equitable reunion of her two halves was a lie and sham and she still hated herself making the emotional rebirth from that episode total fraud.
 
I used to own a T-Shirt that had a cartoon of a very angry, wet Kangaroo, with the text on it too saying "It's better to be pissed off than pissed on."

I felt like Voyager was attacking me sometimes.
 
Guy, you are quite enjoyably insane. And I mean that in the best possible sense:)

How'd you feel after 'Threshold'? Did they have to break out the smelling salts?
 
I used to own a T-Shirt that had a cartoon of a very angry, wet Kangaroo, with the text on it too saying "It's better to be pissed off than pissed on."

I felt like Voyager was attacking me sometimes.

:lol: Are you sure that wasn't the kangaroo?
 
First: no more Borg. They were fun, but Unimatrix Zero and Endgame just raped them.
I would have had the Vaadwaur coming after Voyager, making them the big enemy of the season. Not all episodes would have dealt with them, and I would have kept:
Drive, Critical Care, Body and Soul, The Void, Q2, Author, Author, and Rennaisance Man.
During the last episode, they get home by using Vaadwaur technology.
I would kill off Harry during one of the first episodes, to show the enemy is serious, and because he didn't do anything anyway. During the final episode, I might kill off another character, possible Janeway giving her life so her crew can get home (but the real Janeway, not some crappy future version).
 
Voyager returns to Alpha Q via wormhole, enters standard orbit around Earth, then suffers a warp core breach and explodes.
 
So, just like the Bluesmobile at the end of the Blues Brothers?

Problem with your scenario is that Voyager can eject it's warp core. So either they're heroes who chose to blow up rather than "irradiating" th earth, or they're complete bastards who murder millions of people and have to run, run somewhere safe where Johnny law can't find them at Impulse.
 
A crazy and somewhat senile Q, played by Alan Alda, throws the entire crew back through time and into the middle of the Korean War, where he proceeds to lecture them on how 'war is bad, so very bad' until they all die of boredom. The US Army finds their corpses a year later and gets its hands on the tech they had with them at the time... phasers, tricorders and the like. The technological edge these give the US enables it to eventually conquer the world, thus beginning the Terran Empire timeline. :devil:
 
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And leaves behind a child to be raised by a single mom. Just the senario that Avery Brooks put his foot down and forced a change of the ending of Deep Space Nine. I don't think so.

Brit

I think it was the "Black woman left alone to raise her child" thing Brooks was more averse to than the idea of a single parent (he didn't object to Sisko being one).

This is a key, key distinction. Especially as Sisko's fate was ultimately shown to be rather "good" by (potentially) abandoning his unborn child, touching unconsciously on an actual potential problem in the black community. Tom Paris dying against the Borg (while not something I particularly care for) does not have the same potential connotation as he's not "choosing" to abandon his family.
 
Actually the point is that characters don't have to die to make a good story, the only requirement is that the audience thinks that death is a possibility. Actually Happily Ever After is not a bad thing, nor is it the antithesis of good drama. Humans need happily ever after, that's why God in his infinite wisdom promises heaven.

Death of any character in any medium is only good for one dramatic point, life however has a lot of dramatic points. Trek if nothing else was about people overcoming obstacles to have a good, useful, enjoyable life. Ending any of the series on a death note doesn't give that, from what I read it didn't work for "Enterprise" and in Voyager's case the death of Joe Carey didn't work either.

There are still fans on this very board that don't like his death, there are a lot of fans (and I am one of them that will not buy another Trek Pocket book until it's fixed) don't like Janeway's death.

How is Avery Brook's objection to be taken as a "black" thing only? There are too many children in this world that have been abandoned by their fathers and they are of every color of humanity. That it's particularly problematic with blacks is beside the point, it's a problem everywhere.

And I do think the fact that Miral Paris was a mixed child makes that abandonment even more distasteful, those children especially need both of their parents.

Brit
 
Actually the point is that characters don't have to die to make a good story, the only requirement is that the audience thinks that death is a possibility. Actually Happily Ever After is not a bad thing, nor is it the antithesis of good drama. Humans need happily ever after, that's why God in his infinite wisdom promises heaven.

It's true that characters don't have to die to make a good story. However, the opposite (a good story cannot have character death) is as untrue as saying that a good story must have character death. Leaving aside of course that what constitutes a "good story" is completely subjective.

I'd note that the infinite wisdom of God promising heaven comes with a catch - unless your name is Enoch or Elijah, you have to die to achieve true "happily ever after."

Death of any character in any medium is only good for one dramatic point, life however has a lot of dramatic points. Trek if nothing else was about people overcoming obstacles to have a good, useful, enjoyable life. Ending any of the series on a death note doesn't give that, from what I read it didn't work for "Enterprise" and in Voyager's case the death of Joe Carey didn't work either.

You're correct that life does have a lot of dramatic points. However, one point which all lives have is death. The fear of death, the refusal to acknowledge it as the ultimate outcome which we all face, is crippling. Note, for example, Seven of Nine's pulling back from her exploration of romance with Chakotay because she fears what her death will do to him.

Death is not an obstacle to be overcome, it is the reward and companion of a life well lived - eternal life (beyond whatever awaits us in heaven) is not something to be sought out. Character death at the end of a full life is a good thing.

How is Avery Brook's objection to be taken as a "black" thing only? There are too many children in this world that have been abandoned by their fathers and they are of every color of humanity. That it's particularly problematic with blacks is beside the point, it's a problem everywhere.

You're right that it's not a "black" (why quotes?) thing only, but Avery Brooks' objection is to a very specific situation. It's not beside the point, because he was trying to combat a specific problem within his community. Or perhaps you missed "Far Beyond the Stars" and the (somewhat overblown, perhaps) speech in "Badda-Bing, Badda-Bang" that show Brooks' influence on the show growing as he tried to make specific statements?

Point is, simply conflating the two (Paris dying in combat leaving B'Elanna to raise Miral with Sisko happily leaving Kasidy and his unborn child to be with the Prophets forever) is disingeneous because Brooks was objecting to a specific problem, where the potential scenario with Paris and B'Elanna has happened multiple times in "Star Trek" with no ire raised.

And I do think the fact that Miral Paris was a mixed child makes that abandonment even more distasteful, those children especially need both of their parents.

Brit

You're right of course, all children need both of their parents; fortunately, this potentiality never came to pass, and even if it did it wouldn't be abandonment, merely tragedy.
 
Honestly..I just think that the first day Voyager got to the array..they should of used it.

But..ending...I would of had Year Of Hell turn out to be Chakotay and the Krenim Captain reaching an agreement and then the borg chasing everyone.
 
How is Avery Brook's objection to be taken as a "black" thing only? There are too many children in this world that have been abandoned by their fathers and they are of every color of humanity. That it's particularly problematic with blacks is beside the point, it's a problem everywhere.

And I do think the fact that Miral Paris was a mixed child makes that abandonment even more distasteful, those children especially need both of their parents.

Brit

Those children as you so acceptingly put it, get on perfectly well, thankyou very much.

(Guessing you're not one of them)

It always annoys me when I read somewhere that a child needs two parents or he or she is doomed for all eternity.

In the 24th Century they're probably more accepting that everyone is different.
 
I wonder about Species 8472 if they say that a child is ruined if it only raised with 3 or 4 parents? Or Andorian children with 2 or 3 parents?

Naomi was raised by one parent, or one hedgehog or a parent and a hedgehog, there's rumours that Sam died at some point in the last few seasons and they forgot to tell us, or a village depending on how you count.
 
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