Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by Jayson1, Jan 11, 2020.
I prefer The fun adventure of TFF to the somber and TNG-ish TUC.
They already killed him off in GEN, in a scene so bad (complete with unintended visual puns) that the being shot in the back original scene had more dramatic weight. (What would they have Kirk do, anyway? More of the same that Picard's gotten?)
And it's proof that killing off the heroes is not new to Disney Star Wars. But as a script narrative, turning the Big Hero into a carpet to be walked all over needs a heck of a lot of tact to incontrovertibly pull off. IMHO it worked for Luke, but nobody else. Not even Kirk, even if he was caught with his "britches down" in TWOK so it still doesn't not fit into his character.
They could just bring him back out of the blue in 2323 and leave it to the fans to disagree on what that means over the course of a 4077-page thread.
I have to disagree. Of the TOS movies I rank TWOK, TSFS, TVH and TFF above TUC.
Chekov is a commander, was head of security on the Enterprise, First Officer on the Reliant, yet too stupid to know what happens when you fire a phaser on the ship but Uhura and Scotty did when they came rushing in.
Uhura has served as a communications officer for decades yet never learned even a smattering of the Klingon language and let's not forget how daft those Klingons they spoke to were. They should have been on high alert considering what was happening but instead allow a bunch of bumbling idiots thumbing through... how many different dictionaries... to cross the border.
The patch Spock stuck on Kirk's jacket that must be invisible to scanners as well as the Klingon eye...
I could go on. And on and on...
Either our heroes and the Klingons are the very definition of stupid or Nick Meyer thinks the fans are.
But those are more nitpick issues than I would think would be something that ruins a whole movie. Every movie even great ones have moments in them when you realize something you just seen doesn't really make sense when you think about it. Like in Wrath of Khan how did Khan recognize Chekov or why did Scotty bring his dead nephew to the bridge instead of going to sickbay. Things like that.
No, we're not nitpicking someone wearing a mismatching uniform (Valeris). We're talking about poor writing and directing which undermines the integrity of the characters and/or insults the audience.
The examples you cited, sure, Chekov didn't arrive until S2 but there's nothing that explicitly states he wasn't on the Enterpise, serving in another position before being promoted to the bridge. And Scotty taking his nephew to the bridge, well, grief and shock affect different people differently. Your examples are explained or overlooked easily enough. And neither makes the characters look stupid like TUC's issues.
And we haven't even touched on our crew in TUC becoming crotchety old racists as they approach retirement.
Also, I don't think it made McCoy look good where he didn't have a clue about the Klingon anatomy and not take measures for the wounded Klingon leader to a facility with 23rd century medical technology (SICK BAY) where he could at least have a better view of his body.
Yeah, I always had an issue with that. You'd think Bones would, after a career spanning decades, have at least some knowledge of the Federation's main foe.
I've always thought Nick Meyer was overrated and never understood the worship he gets.
I would think McCoy would have some medical knowledge of Klingon anatomy as well; in "The Trouble with Tribbles" he appeared to have some knowledge of their vital signature along with the medical tool he was using. Contrast to VI he's using what I would assume is an advance tool and he can't figure out Gorkon's anatomy??? The medical tricorder doesn't discriminate alien lifeforms; then WTF is the point of having one if it can't scan such a prestigious person in the cusp of universal peace! I was surprised THAT wasn't included in his trial.
I don't understand it either, one time I decided to journey through Meyer's filmography because of the grand praise for the director on this forum and what I saw it from his work was very underwhelming.
I mentioned it in another thread months ago at least regarding Meyer's work and since you mentioned his body of work...
I always had an issue with Time After Time. I saw it when I was a kid and liked it. Then when I went to watch it again as adult, thinking "Malcolm McDowell and David Warner as H.G. Wells and Jack the Ripper... oh, and Mary Steenburgen too, can't wait! Get the popcorn! Then I watched it again, critically as I watch all shows whether I want to or not, and it just didn't work.
The years were wrong for when Wells and the Ripper were active respectively and if I tried making excuse for it, it just fell apart even more. Aside from that, and his Star Trek work, I'm not overly familiar with his other projects but judging based on what I do know, (and I probably watch the TOS movies annually) I don't feel I'm missing much.
I was ALL ABOUT a Shatner return back for the 50th anniversary when Nimoy was alive.
Star Trek Beyond would’ve been the perfect opportunity to do something so crazy, but my passion for that idea obviously died with Nimoy.
Shatner still has the pep in his step to do it. I’m game.
He's an ok director/writer. His movies are competently made. But yeah, sometimes the praise makes you think he's the next Alfred Hitchcock. He's not.
He can make you a decent film on a shoestring budget and make it competently. But he's not going to dazzle you.
I did like "The Day After" even if it was a bit intense (though completely appropriate considering the subject). But other than that he doesn't have a lot of star studded credits to his name. TWOK is probably the most popular of the films which is probably partly why Trekkies seem to like him so much.
I’m curious to see Time After Time.
A better example would be how the everloving fuck the Reliant crew didn't detect the changes in the Ceti Alpha system, or how the Genesis torpedo managed to create an entire planet when that was expressely not how it was designed to work.
Thematically and visually I enjoy TUC, though like you I'm irked by some of those idiotic script blunders. The easiest option for such shitty writing is to intentionally "misremember" such things: We'll pretend the Radiation Room in TWOK wasn't utterly daft, and that the chamber did fit inside the hull of the Enterprise. We'll pretend that Admiral Morrow didn't stupidly claim in TSFS that the Enterprise was only 20 years old, and that the Enterprise's self destruct wouldn't have caused a breach in the antimatter containment, thus annhilating the entire ship. We'll pretend that a slingshot around the sun would absolutely have caused the ship to travel back in time in TVH, and that they can travel forward using the same method. We can pretend that TFF was an entirely different, better movie.
This, sadly, is probably the safest option, because all too often writers new to the franchise have rarely been interested in making a better Trek, but instead just one that passes barely enough muster for them to get paid.
What's much worse about that scene is that it gave the writers an excellent reason as to why the Genesis planet was unstable in STIII (because it was meant to be used on a planetoid, not a nebula), but instead they chose to throw poor David under the bus with that whole 'protomatter' bullcrap, just to make him look bad for no real reason whatsoever.
I agree that making David look reckless/impatient/stupid was a dick move (as was kiling him, tbh) but it still doesn't explain the fact that the device somehow magically had the ability to craft said planetoid -- which is explicitly not how the technology works.
It's yet another example of needlessly idiotic writing, where it's necessary to either close your eyes and hum the theme tune as loudly as possible, or -as I do- "misremember" that the device went off close enough to Regula to do some hefty molecular landscaping. The other ways lie only madness...
With regards to Genesis doing something it wasn't expressly designed to do (but perhaps had the ability to do all along), I've figured it's easy enough to assume Khan hacked it either prior to or during the activation sequence. Turning all those cylinders must do something after all.
Bring it on! The guy is more active than Patrick Stewart.
news story on Shatners recent tweets about playing Kirk again
Recently the Shat said of character possibly, "No. I think Kirk’s story is pretty well played out at this point."
Yet, wasn't it him lobbying to some degree to get on a J.J. Rebootrams film years ago?
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