How would you change the show?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Voyager' started by Admiral Jean-Luc Picard, Oct 14, 2020.

  1. SevenJetC

    SevenJetC Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    If all the Maquis had to wear a uniform, so should Seven. It made no sense for her to wear that ridiculous catsuit.

    I was fourteen when she came on Voyager and to be honest, I haven’t paid much attention to what she was wearing, because I loved her as a character. But I hated when other fans, especially women, would reduce her to just a pair of boobs because of the way she looked, without paying any actual attention to her as a character. Because it meant they were willing to do that same to any other woman.
     
  2. Danja

    Danja Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    The Borg are official enemies of the Federation. Putting Seven in a Starfleet uniform would've been awkward diplomatically, to say the least.
     
  3. Oddish

    Oddish Fleet Captain Captain

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    Neelix and Kes wore civilian clothing that was comfortable, practical, and modest. Seven wore an outfit that was so tight, Jeri Ryan sometimes had trouble breathing in it.

    Seven was a great character in spite of her outfit, not because of it.
     
  4. Danja

    Danja Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Sigourney Weaver's character Gwen was allegedly intended as a swipe at Seven of Nine.
     
  5. Oddish

    Oddish Fleet Captain Captain

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    Maybe a late addition to the script, since Seven showed up in 1998 and the movie came out on 1999. It might also have been targeting Deanna Troi.
     
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  6. at Quark's

    at Quark's Commodore Commodore

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    Interesting... I always had thought she was more meant to be a swipe at Deanna. Because, say what you will about 7 of 9, she's intelligent and extremely capable at the tasks she gets assigned. Gwen's role merely is to repeat what the computer said, much like Deanna often only got to say silly stuff like 'Captain, I sense confusion', though that fortunately got a bit better in later seasons.
     
  7. Oddish

    Oddish Fleet Captain Captain

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    She could have been an amalgamation of several characters: Uhura, Troi, Seven. Any female character who was wrapped up as eye candy, really.
     
  8. SevenJetC

    SevenJetC Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Well, Maquis weren’t exactly friends of Federation either... either way, it also makes Human Error a very sad episode. If you look away from the gross C/7 stuff everyone is so focused on, what were Seven’s dreams? “I wish I could wear normal clothes. I wish my colleagues treated me like a person. I wish I didn’t have to live in a cupboard.”

    Which is what I would change about the show. They had this “Seven rediscovering her humanity” plot point, but at the same time kept reversing the process with bullshit like “Oh, she cried. That was just a cortical node dysfunction, not a real process.” and infantilazing her at times. I think they shouldn’t have been so afraid in fleshing out the characters better. Not just with Seven, but with everyone, no matter what trauma they underwent, reset button was pressed. The only episode glacing over the issue was Extreme Risk.

    Also I would have made the second half or at least last five episodes take place on Earth, to bring a proper closure to the story. But I do realize it would have been heavy on the budget to have new sets pre-cheap greenscreen era.
     
  9. Oddish

    Oddish Fleet Captain Captain

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    I think one ending episode would have been enough... but yes. Instead of establishing and deleting a character epilogue in "Endgame".

    Here's my CHARACTER BY CHARACTER changes.
    Janeway: Write a character bible for her and stick to it. Ensure that she is a consistent set of strengths and weaknesses, rather than a combination of Jane Eyre, Captain Bligh, Leonardo da Vinci, a middle school principal, and Rambo.
    Chakotay: Make him a character who complements Janeway's weaknesses. If she's the thinker and Prime Directive stickler, make him the rogue. Also, I would have had him and the other Maquis quietly go over to regular rank insignia after the third or fourth season.
    Tuvok: Have him wear red when the situation warrants it (not much else, I like Tuvok).
    Neelix: Have him respect Tuvok's Vulcan nature a little more.
    Seven: Give her a more modest outfit.
    Doctor: He was supposed to have been named after his creator. They should have stuck with that. Also, either deleted "Real Life" or brought back his remaining holo family members a couple of times.
    B'Elanna: Have her temper get her into more trouble than it does, at least early on. Instead of having her become chief engineer right off, have her get brigged for slugging Carey. Have her rise to the post when Carey expires, or he and a few others jump ship in "The 37's".
    Tom: I like him the way he is. But "Threshold" never happens.
    Harry: Give him a real "newbie officer" journey. He starts out as a Lower Decks type ensign. It takes him a year or two to earn his spot at the senior officer meetings. By the time Voyager gets home, Harry is a valued team member, a seasoned spacefarer, and a ○○ lieutenant who is almost unrecognizable as the wide eyed puppy who boarded Voyager seven years ago.
    Kes: "Fury" never happens.
     
  10. cultcross

    cultcross I Know What you did Last Lockdown Moderator

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    Some of this will be grounds trodden by others, but what the heck.

    I like the show concept, I think it could have been great. In a redo, I would make much more of the idea of a Starfleet/Marquis hybrid crew and watch over the course of years as they grew to trust each other and Chakotay and Janeway learned to work together. This gives Chakotay a much more important role in the show, gives the Starfleet regulars something to play off of, give Tom a chance to play both sides, as well as making good use of the original premise.

    Kes was a wasted opportunity; the idea of a 'mayfly' alien that lives life to the full because she only has 8 years or whatever is potentially really interesting and we could have seen her age through the series and wrestle with her choice to spend her life on Voyager. And Neelix/Kes needed ditching, it was creepy af and the jealousy storyline in the first two years did Neelix no favours.

    Speaking of Neelix, he needed an agenda, an edge, a motivation of his own. He was just too beige, precisely because he had no stake in the journey other than being around Kes. He needed to have his own ends in mind sometimes and make choices that drove stories.

    I wouldn't have gone for full serialised storytelling, it wasn't the time and DS9 was treading that path, but I would have liked more lasting consequences and ongoing impact of choices. Have the ship carry major damage, that sort of thing. The show started going down this road a little in the latter half of season two but quickly abandoned it to return to fully episodic except some Borg threads.

    Speaking of Borg and the infamous all powerful nanoprobes, I'd tone down the technobabble a lot. Way too many tech the tech solutions to tech the tech problems, especially early on.
     
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  11. Oddish

    Oddish Fleet Captain Captain

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    This, totally. Like in Star Trek III, where the poor old Enterprise was fixed, but covered in scorch marks from where Reliant had phasered her.

    Brings me to how I'd change the ship, aside from that, which is first...

    Second, I'd give her a cruising and top speed that made sense. Warp 9.975 is 5000 times the speed of light, which makes for 14 years of travel, not 70. If we want a 70-year, 70,000 light year journey, then say she cruises at Warp 8 (1024c). You could still say she can hit 9.75, or whatever top speed you want, for short distances.

    Third, firing up her autodestruct sequence needed two or more participants. Either Janeway and Chakotay needed to set it off together, or Janeway and Tuvok (highest ranking commissioned Starfleet officer). No captain, however trustworthy, should have been able to nuke the ship alone.
     
  12. Danja

    Danja Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    "Scorpion Part II" (Seven's first appearance) first aired in September of 1997.
     
  13. at Quark's

    at Quark's Commodore Commodore

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    From 'Parallax' (S1)
    Imagine this episode being written in S4 or later. Surely they both would have yelled 'Nanoprobes!' instead. :)

    Agreed. All they'd had to do was let Stadi say 'Top speed <etc> ' rather than what she actually said ' Sustainable cruise velocity of warp factor nine point nine seven five.'. I guess this is one instance of an overzealous writer wanting to show off how advanced Voyager was.

    Certainly not a slightly instable Captain like Janeway ;)
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2020
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  14. Qonundrum

    Qonundrum Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    1. Actually use the creative ideas to fuller extents, not using the reset button or holding it off longer
    2. Keep Tuvix, whose episode proved matter could be created from the transporters so we needn't need to lose Tuvok and Neelix for the sake of murdering Tuvix
    3. Year of Hell being season-long since it's about a year
    4. Timeless becomes a 2-parter and ditches convenient Borg treknobabble to facilitate the solution
    5. Make "Worst Case Scenario" a mini-arc, instead of a holodeck fantasy post-Seska that manages to shoehorn her back in anyway (the story is largely great as it stands, but proves they could have gone a different route early on and remain as effective and cohesive by season 3)
    6. Have Seven wear clothes. Her reason for having the tight outfit (skin regeneration due to borg treknobabble thingy) is better than T'Pol's, but still not necessary (just wear bandages under regular 24th century clothes... )
    7. Keep the crew more consistent in their actions
    8. Promote Kim for goodness' sake
    9. get everyone home via warp 11 then give 'em the anti-salamander magic cure, or better yet just not explore that warp cap topic since there was no way around cop-outs
     
  15. Oddish

    Oddish Fleet Captain Captain

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    Except in "Scientific Method", when she wasn't exactly slightly unstable...
     
  16. Bry_Sinclair

    Bry_Sinclair Vice Admiral Admiral

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    If anything I'd say the episode shows the transporter destroys matter as there's no way Tuvix had the mass of both Tuvok and Neelix.
     
  17. Tenacity

    Tenacity Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Okay, then Keiko should have been wearing a uniform while she was on the Enterprise D.
     
  18. Oddish

    Oddish Fleet Captain Captain

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    We're not saying Seven needed to wear a Starfleet uniform... just an outfit that didn't look like it was spray painted on.
     
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  19. at Quark's

    at Quark's Commodore Commodore

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    Well, we already largely agreed that that amount of instability was largely due to that 'medical' experimentation on her.

    Usually stable persons can become unstable, given the 'right' circumstances and triggers, cf. Sisko losing his shit with Eddington, or Picard with the Borg in FC.
     
  20. Oddish

    Oddish Fleet Captain Captain

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    Or Kirk yelling "KHAAAAAAAAAAN!!!"
    Or Archer going pirate in "Damage", though that might have been desperation rather than insanity.