How Would you Change S7 Dukat?
- Thread starter Photon
- Start date
I'd do something with the pacing of "What You Leave Behind." Either that or EXPLAIN that the proximity of the Pah-Wraiths in the Fire Caves was causing time dilation.
As for Dukat? He sold his soul and paid the price. And the most tragic thing was, there were so many points when he could've chosen against it.
Not to mention how poetically appropriate his penalty for treason against his own people was. Anyone ever read Dante's Inferno, and seen what one of the penalties for traitors was, in the Ninth Circle?
As for Dukat? He sold his soul and paid the price. And the most tragic thing was, there were so many points when he could've chosen against it.
Not to mention how poetically appropriate his penalty for treason against his own people was. Anyone ever read Dante's Inferno, and seen what one of the penalties for traitors was, in the Ninth Circle?
I wouldn't change a thing about Season 7 Dukat. I loved what they did with the character.
OMG, I had never thought of that, and I LOVE The Divine Comedy.
I assume you're referring to the fact that the sinners in that level are guilty of betrayal and are encased in ice (to varying degrees) for eternity as a punishment, much like Dukat is encased in fire for eternity. Or were you referring to the tale of Count Ugolino, whom Dante mets in the Ninth Circle?
Either way, I can definitely see the similiarities.
Not to mention how poetically appropriate his penalty for treason against his own people was. Anyone ever read Dante's Inferno, and seen what one of the penalties for traitors was, in the Ninth Circle?
OMG, I had never thought of that, and I LOVE The Divine Comedy.
I assume you're referring to the fact that the sinners in that level are guilty of betrayal and are encased in ice (to varying degrees) for eternity as a punishment, much like Dukat is encased in fire for eternity. Or were you referring to the tale of Count Ugolino, whom Dante mets in the Ninth Circle?
Either way, I can definitely see the similiarities.
Exactly... That's where all the nonsense started... the cartoon villainy, the Pah-wraiths possession, red eyes, chanting, the absurd behavior like blaming Sisko for Ziyal's death (
) to explain (?) the forced plot of Dukat becoming obsessed with Sisko (I'm pretty sure he had always been obsessed with regaining Terok Nor, not with Sisko personally), forgetting all about Cardassia and his 7 children there, writers not being able to decide whether Dukat is insane or not, etc.But I'd also have to either rewrite the Pah-wraiths into something less cartoonish or completely remove them from the show, and remove that awful 'Sisko's mom is the Prophet' storyline.
Exactly... That's where all the nonsense started... the cartoon villainy, the Pah-wraiths possession, red eyes, chanting, the absurd behavior like blaming Sisko for Ziyal's death (
But I'd also have to either rewrite the Pah-wraiths into something less cartoonish or completely remove them from the show, and remove that awful 'Sisko's mom is the Prophet' storyline.
Amen to that.
The mistake was in portraying Dukat as a true believer of the paghwraiths. Dukat does not believe in anyone or anything but himself, and the greater glorification of himself!!! 
So the way to rewrite him is simple: he doesn't go "crazy" (I hate crazy characters because it's too easy for lazy writers to squash them into a shape that will fit the plotline they want - characters should drive the plotlines!) and he doesn't actually believe the paghwraiths are gods.
He does believe that he can manipulate the paghwraiths to serve his own ambitions and of course that goes even worse than when he tried that with the Dominion. Dukat is defined by his galaxy-class hubris and that, not insanity or following false gods, is what should get him in the end.
Yeah, that works too.
So the way to rewrite him is simple: he doesn't go "crazy" (I hate crazy characters because it's too easy for lazy writers to squash them into a shape that will fit the plotline they want - characters should drive the plotlines!) and he doesn't actually believe the paghwraiths are gods.
He does believe that he can manipulate the paghwraiths to serve his own ambitions and of course that goes even worse than when he tried that with the Dominion. Dukat is defined by his galaxy-class hubris and that, not insanity or following false gods, is what should get him in the end.
Yeah, that works too.
Wouldn't change a thing.
I agree, insane villains are usually the product of lazy writing. And what's worse, they usually aren't even written to be consistently insane, they don't seem to have any specific mental illness, they are just insane as much as the plot demands it in order to dispense with any rational motivations.The mistake was in portraying Dukat as a true believer of the paghwraiths. Dukat does not believe in anyone or anything but himself, and the greater glorification of himself!!!
So the way to rewrite him is simple: he doesn't go "crazy" (I hate crazy characters because it's too easy for lazy writers to squash them into a shape that will fit the plotline they want - characters should drive the plotlines!) and he doesn't actually believe the paghwraiths are gods.
He does believe that he can manipulate the paghwraiths to serve his own ambitions and of course that goes even worse than when he tried that with the Dominion. Dukat is defined by his galaxy-class hubris and that, not insanity or following false gods, is what should get him in the end.
There are two ways I could see Dukat's end.
1) Insane Dukat - either should have been written out of the show after SOA, or there should have been a little follow-up to find out if he was going to be in the asylum or if he would get better and eventually be deemed fit to stand trial. In any case, he's not the main villain anymore.
2) He doesn't go insane, or gets better and escapes. A rational Dukat can still be a serious villain. They could go through with the Pah-wraiths storyline, as you suggest: Dukat is only using the Pah-wraiths for his own ends (and not something idiotic like destroying all Bajorans; the real Dukat would try to get back to power, or retain power and status, by any means, and that should be his main motive). Actually, come to think of it, this would work better if he was still/again the leader of Cardassia at that point: since the Prophets are helping Sisko (and have decided the battle for Terok Nor for him), he decides to balance it out with an alliance with powerful aliens of his own, the Prophets' cousins, the Pah-wraiths. (In my version, the Pah-wraiths and the Prophets are the same species, who clashed over some serious issues millenia ago, and were exiled and confined to the Fire Caves after they lost the civil war.) This would also mean rewriting the Pah-wraiths into something less cartoonish and crazy. The Pah-wraiths, on their end, are also using Dukat and Cardassia/Dominion to achieve their goal, which is not something idiotic like 'to destroy all life in the universe', but a very simple and logical goal: to defeat the Prophets and get back to the Celestial Temple, their home, which they believe rightfully belongs to them. Dukat/Pah-wraiths would be a simple 'marriage' of convenience.
A
Amaris
Guest
Ooh, I REALLY like that one!
I wouldn't change a thing about Season 7 Dukat. I loved what they did with the character.
Not to mention how poetically appropriate his penalty for treason against his own people was. Anyone ever read Dante's Inferno, and seen what one of the penalties for traitors was, in the Ninth Circle?
OMG, I had never thought of that, and I LOVE The Divine Comedy.
I assume you're referring to the fact that the sinners in that level are guilty of betrayal and are encased in ice (to varying degrees) for eternity as a punishment, much like Dukat is encased in fire for eternity. Or were you referring to the tale of Count Ugolino, whom Dante mets in the Ninth Circle?
Either way, I can definitely see the similiarities.
I'm actually thinking of this:
Wikipedia (emphasis mine) said:
And there you go...while the particular type of treason is not exactly the same, the punishment most definitely is.
Agreed. he was fine the way he was.
About Ezri: bite your tounge. She was also fine the way she was.
I wouldn't change a thing.
I saw Dukat joining the Pah-Wraths as a result of Kai Winn stopping "The Reckoning". Remember they said the fight between the Prophets & Pah-Wraiths had to happen in order for Bajor to have peace? Kai Winn interfered, so the Pah-Wraiths had to find a new vessel. So they found one as evil as Sisko was good. After it was revealed Sisko is a child of the Prophets, then Dukat had to become the "child" of the Pah-Wraiths. Sisko had to learn to believe in the Prophets first, just like Dukat had to come to believe in the Pah-Wraiths for the battle between the two "Gods" to happen again. I see it as all relevant.
The underlying theme of DS9 is about Gods & monsters.
It's also incorporates aspects of Hamlet.
Last edited:
Agreed on both counts.
Which are those?
Similar threads
