How would Sarek explain Spock 'Prime' to the other Vulcan survivors?

[Mirren Audax]

It occured to me the other day that there might be a bit of Vulcan head-scratching to explain the presence of two Spocks to other Vulcans who survived their world's destruction.

As many of them would still be in denial about time travel - as we saw in Enterprise - how might Sarek go about this?

 

[Islander]

Re: How would Sarek explain Spock 'Prime' to the other Vulcan survivor

First, time travel is no longer denied by the Vulcan science in TOS time.

Second, it would be easy to have him pass as a relative to Sarek (like an older brother). It's not like there is any paper trail of is existence/non-existence anyway since the whole planet blew up.

 

[iguana_tonante]

Re: How would Sarek explain Spock 'Prime' to the other Vulcan survivor

Old Spock will call himself Selek, a distant cousin of Sarek's family.

 

[OneBuckFilms]

Re: How would Sarek explain Spock 'Prime' to the other Vulcan survivor

Spock Prime has no reason to conceal his identity or any of the events in which he was involved.

 

[Michael]

Re: How would Sarek explain Spock 'Prime' to the other Vulcan survivor

Old Spock will call himself Selek, a distant cousin of Sarek's family.

Beat me to it.

 

[JarodRussell]

Re: How would Sarek explain Spock 'Prime' to the other Vulcan survivor

They'd probably go nuts about a time traveller who's not even trying to correct a big fucking fuck up in the timeline.

 

[Franklin]

Re: How would Sarek explain Spock 'Prime' to the other Vulcan survivor

They'd probably go nuts about a time traveller who's not even trying to correct a big fucking fuck up in the timeline.

Well, it's not a fuck-up in the timeline. It's a NEW timeline. There's nothing to correct. NO-THING. The timeline from which Spock Prime came is still there, it's past intact and still going along swimmingly as the 25th century approaches.

I think he'd come clean about himself, then as is insinuated in the movie, throw himself into the task of recreating Vulcan culture and society. Just having everyone know he's Spock from another timeline doesn't affect much.
Of course, how much he could affect the future with his knowledge of the events from his timeline is problematic and the topic of numerous other threads.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Re: How would Sarek explain Spock 'Prime' to the other Vulcan survivor

Old Spock has no reason to reveal his presence or any of the events in which he was involved.

The man arguably has certain knowledge of the future which would be enormously valuable, if one continues the pretense that there is a "Prime Universe" from which the new Trek continuity has diverged. He knows of the existence of species that the Federation does not yet, celestial events and phenomena ("there's a big probe that's going to want to talk to your humpback whales, it'll get here in about a quarter century and you might want to get working on that") and so on. If other people become aware of him, he'll quickly lose control of his own destiny.

 

[JarodRussell]

Re: How would Sarek explain Spock 'Prime' to the other Vulcan survivor

Well, it's not a fuck-up in the timeline. It's a NEW timeline.

Well that's debatable.

The Kirk character in the movie also shares my opinion about how time travel works in his universe.

And the Spock Prime character, if he is indeed supposed to be the same as in TOS, did slingshot around the sun to travel along one timeline.

So even if the Red Matter stuff caused a special case of time travel and parallel universe travel, they would still be able to slingshot around a sun to prevent the destruction of Vulcan in that particular parallel universe.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Re: How would Sarek explain Spock 'Prime' to the other Vulcan survivor

1. Crossing the Galactic barrier BAD!!!!!
2. Space amoeba
3. Kodos is Karidian
4. Doomsday Machine
5. No Colonies on Cestus III
6. Arrest Heingist
7. V'ger is coming
8. Whale Probe is coming
9. DNR stick on Botany Bay
10. Praxis

SPOCKS CHECKLIST

 

[Nerys Myk]

Re: How would Sarek explain Spock 'Prime' to the other Vulcan survivor

Well, it's not a fuck-up in the timeline. It's a NEW timeline.

Well that's debatable.

The Kirk character in the movie also shares my opinion about how time travel works in his universe.

And the Spock Prime character, if he is indeed supposed to be the same as in TOS, did slingshot around the sun to travel along one timeline.

So even if the Red Matter stuff caused a special case of time travel and parallel universe travel, they would still be able to slingshot around a sun to prevent the destruction of Vulcan in that particular parallel universe.

They could do that to prevent any number of disasters in the Prime Universe. Yet they haven't.

 

[Franklin]

Re: How would Sarek explain Spock 'Prime' to the other Vulcan survivor

Well, it's not a fuck-up in the timeline. It's a NEW timeline.

Well that's debatable.

The Kirk character in the movie also shares my opinion about how time travel works in his universe.

And the Spock Prime character, if he is indeed supposed to be the same as in TOS, did slingshot around the sun to travel along one timeline.

So even if the Red Matter stuff caused a special case of time travel and parallel universe travel, they would still be able to slingshot around a sun to prevent the destruction of Vulcan in that particular parallel universe.

True. And not to hijack the thread, but what you're saying would not be correcting a timeline so it goes back to being as it should be (City being the best TOS example). Going back in time from within the new timeline to prevent Vulcan from being destroyed is truly changing the future. Not correcting, changing. It's not like it may not be able to be done, but doing it to change history, even for the better, is a different ethical question altogether.

 

[JarodRussell]

Re: How would Sarek explain Spock 'Prime' to the other Vulcan survivor

Well, it's not a fuck-up in the timeline. It's a NEW timeline.

Well that's debatable.

The Kirk character in the movie also shares my opinion about how time travel works in his universe.

And the Spock Prime character, if he is indeed supposed to be the same as in TOS, did slingshot around the sun to travel along one timeline.

So even if the Red Matter stuff caused a special case of time travel and parallel universe travel, they would still be able to slingshot around a sun to prevent the destruction of Vulcan in that particular parallel universe.

They could do that to prevent any number of disasters in the Prime Universe. Yet they haven't.

Because most of those disasters are not caused by time travellers fucking with your timeline. They are 'natural', so to speak.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Re: How would Sarek explain Spock 'Prime' to the other Vulcan survivor

Well that's debatable.

The Kirk character in the movie also shares my opinion about how time travel works in his universe.

And the Spock Prime character, if he is indeed supposed to be the same as in TOS, did slingshot around the sun to travel along one timeline.

So even if the Red Matter stuff caused a special case of time travel and parallel universe travel, they would still be able to slingshot around a sun to prevent the destruction of Vulcan in that particular parallel universe.

They could do that to prevent any number of disasters in the Prime Universe. Yet they haven't.

Because most of those disasters are not caused by time travellers fucking with your timeline. They are 'natural', so to speak.

Why would that matter?

 

[JarodRussell]

Re: How would Sarek explain Spock 'Prime' to the other Vulcan survivor

It's like a Prime Directive thing. First of all it was Spock's mistake to begin with. He took way too much red matter with him, and he didn't destroy the ship when he knew Nero was going to catch him. 6 billion lives destroyed because of a time travel accident, and Spock has the knowledge to undo that damage. We know that, because he stuff like that in the timeline where he comes from.

 

[Shazam!]

Re: How would Sarek explain Spock 'Prime' to the other Vulcan survivor

You have to wonder if Spock knows he is in an alternate timeline. If he does, it kinda makes sense (ish) that he'd just leave things be as his universe is going about it's business just fine.

 

[JarodRussell]

Re: How would Sarek explain Spock 'Prime' to the other Vulcan survivor

It's still a moral problem, and I'd imagine the character of Spock would have a big problem with that. Even if it is an alternate, parallel universe, who gives outsiders the right to interfere with it an kill 6 billions? Prime Directive, I say. Spock should actual try everything to undo the damage he caused.

 

[M'Sharak]

Re: How would Sarek explain Spock 'Prime' to the other Vulcan survivor

Well, it's not a fuck-up in the timeline. It's a NEW timeline.

Well that's debatable.

The Kirk character in the movie also shares my opinion about how time travel works in his universe.

That would be a one-word opinion, I'm guessing?

And the Spock Prime character, if he is indeed supposed to be the same as in TOS, did slingshot around the sun to travel along one timeline.

So even if the Red Matter stuff caused a special case of time travel and parallel universe travel, they would still be able to slingshot around a sun to prevent the destruction of Vulcan in that particular parallel universe.

He is supposed to be the same Spock, and in certain TOS stories, slingshotting was indeed employed -- I believe the first such instance was as a result of Spock citing a never-tested intermix formula for a cold restart of the ship's engines. However, it very much looks as if slingshotting is not going to be seen again, or not in the foreseeable future, at any rate.

Dan: Spock Prime could go back in time and stop Nero, like all the other ways they have done before in movies and TV shows in the past Trek lore, he doesn’t need Red Matter to only go back in time to stop Nero. It’s lame for Bob to say that Prime Spok can’t do time travel without Red Matter. When they could just fly around the Sun like he did in Star Trek IV, or Picard did in First Contact.
BobOrci: In our Universe, as long as I am here, you can’t just slingshot around the sun and linear time is a misconception from the middle part of the 20th century.. A good analogy for what we have done here would be to imagine we were rebooting the modern adventures of a sailor, who at the time that his stories were told, it was believed the earth was flat. Now, years later, here in the re-whatever, we know the world is round. So our story exists in a world where the world is now round, despite that being a “canon” violation.


GaryS: Was the timeline that Nero visited the original past up to the point that George Kirk is killed? Or was it always an alternate timeline because Nero was destined to travel there?
BobOrci: We think of it is as identical to the original until Nero arrives.

Slingshotting, as far as Orci is concerned, belongs to an old model, one which has been superseded in the intervening four decades of theoretical astrophysics.

We seem to be wandering away from the main topic somewhat, though.

 

[JarodRussell]

Re: How would Sarek explain Spock 'Prime' to the other Vulcan survivor

We seem to be wandering away from the main topic somewhat, though.

A bit. Though my point is that the Vulcans would have a big problem with Spock, if they knew that he was the cause (or one of them) for the destruction of their planet.

Slingshotting, as far as Orci is concerned, belongs to an old model, one which has been superseded in the intervening four decades of theoretical astrophysics.

That's my big problem with Orci. He can't just ignore the rules that Star Trek followed for 40 years (and in my opinion, the time travel and parallel universe stuff was very consistent in Trek). And his reasoning is flawed, too: beaming and warp drive are impossible, too. Why did he include that in the script?

 

[Shazam!]

Re: How would Sarek explain Spock 'Prime' to the other Vulcan survivor

Slingshotting, as far as Orci is concerned, belongs to an old model, one which has been superseded in the intervening four decades of theoretical astrophysics

Personally, I think Star Trek trying to keep up with current scientific trends is futile and it's a little bit if a shame if the current creative team is almost embarrassed by what came before as opposed to embracing it.