How would S1 be different...

[c0rnedfr0g]

... if "The Cage" had not been rejected as the original pilot? When would Kirk have been introduced?

General speculation on what would've been different is what I'm going for here. Do you think you'd have liked it better?

 

[Good Will Riker]

If NBC had gone with "The Cage," we would be seeing Captain Christopher Pike of the USS Enterprise, and the character of Captain James T. Kirk would have never been introduced.

 

[c0rnedfr0g]

If NBC had gone with "The Cage," we would be seeing Captain Christopher Pike of the USS Enterprise, and the character of Captain James T. Kirk would have never been introduced.

what about other characters

 

[CheapTrick]

I doubt any of the characters we know and love would have been introduced. It would have been the adventures of Pike, Number One, Spock, Boyce, Colt, Tyler.... Marvel Comic's The Early Adventures was a pretty neat look at what may have been.

 

[starburst]

I can imagine there would have been some changes from the Cage to the series the same as there was between WNMHGB and the series and example Sulu's character moving position.

Depending on how long the series in that format would have run for, Uhura may well still have been introduced and Chekov (or similar characters), as for who plays them thats an even bigger ?

 

[Nerys Myk]

Since it was a pilot, there may have been further tinkering with the cast and characters. Which is what happened with "WNMHGB". Pike, Boyce, Number One might have all stayed but the supporting role may have been altered or recast. Some of the TOS familiar faces might have shown up: Doohan, Takei and Nichols since they had worked with GR in the past. Not sure about Kirk or Shatner. Maybe Shat would have been cast in "Space Seed" as the exiled Eugenics Wars leader, named James T. Kirk.

PIKE: KIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIRK!!!!!!

 

[EEE]

Considering the scuttlebutt that Hunter's wife started making too many demands (ostensibly on his behalf), I'd think the chances are we'd still have had Kirk.

I think we'd have ended up in the same place, but essentially had a longer WNMHGB time period.

 

[Wingsley]

We really have no idea what TOS would've looked like, because Paramount shot another pilot, "Where No Man Has Gone Before", and TOS still wound up looking different than even that. Remember, WNMHGB had no Uhura, no Chapel, no Rand, no McCoy, and Sulu apparently wasn't stationed on the Bridge at that time.

I will say this: the "Cage" uniforms were a little less obnoxious on the women, even if the male TOS long-sleeved T-shirts looks so cool. I suppose the counter-balance would've been that "Number One", a female character, served as the ship's XO.

All in all, Jeffrey Hunter would have made a memorable captain of the Enterprise.

Another wrinkle to consider: if Jeffrey Hunter had continued on for TOS as Capt. Pike, TREK might've died with him in 1969. That Hunter died so young, with so much promise, never ceases to amaze me. He joined a long line of "immortalized" brilliant entertainers like Richie Valens, Jim Morrison, and Janis Joplin who all had a bright future ahead of them.

 

[c0rnedfr0g]

We really have no idea what TOS would've looked like, because Paramount shot another pilot, "Where No Man Has Gone Before", and TOS still wound up looking different than even that. Remember, WNMHGB had no Uhura, no Chapel, no Rand, no McCoy, and Sulu apparently wasn't stationed on the Bridge at that time.

I will say this: the "Cage" uniforms were a little less obnoxious on the women, even if the male TOS long-sleeved T-shirts looks so cool. I suppose the counter-balance would've been that "Number One", a female character, served as the ship's XO.

All in all, Jeffrey Hunter would have made a memorable captain of the Enterprise.

Another wrinkle to consider: if Jeffrey Hunter had continued on for TOS as Capt. Pike, TREK might've died with him in 1969. That Hunter died so young, with so much promise, never ceases to amaze me. He joined a long line of "immortalized" brilliant entertainers like Richie Valens, Jim Morrison, and Janis Joplin who all had a bright future ahead of them.

i thought he died from complications from an incident while filming a movie in Spain. if he had been doing TOS, he probably wouldn't have landed that movie role and might be alive today.... way to go, nbc, for indirectly causing his death

 

[Christopher]

... if "The Cage" had not been rejected as the original pilot? When would Kirk have been introduced?

Hard to say. The network didn't reject the Pike character; they were fine with him. But Hunter wasn't willing to commit to a series. Now, when they signed Pike for "The Cage," they had an option on him for the series -- meaning that if the network had bought the series based on that pilot, he would've been contractually obligated to do the series. But they didn't have an option on him for a second pilot, so he declined to participate and they had to recast. So theoretically, if there'd only been one pilot followed by a series, Hunter could've remained as the lead. But it seems like he wouldn't have been too happy about it. So it's possible that even in that case, the producers would've learned of Hunter's reluctance and chosen to let him go and recast (as was the case with Genevieve Bujold as the original Captain Janeway).

As for the other characters, there's no guarantee that any of them would've stayed around. This wasn't yet the age of ensemble series; there was typically one or at most two leads in a series and everyone else was a guest star, a recurring role at best. We saw in the early episodes just how interchangeable the supporting cast was. The pilot characters were replaced for various reasons. NBC didn't like Spock and wanted him gone, but Roddenberry would've probably still fought to keep him, so he likely would've stayed. As for Boyce, he might've changed to McCoy anyway, because De Kelley was the actor Roddenberry had wanted in the first place -- alternatively, we might've gotten Piper for a few episodes and then had him replaced by McCoy without explanation, in typical '60s fashion (since it took a while for Roddenberry to convince the studio and network that Kelley was the right guy). Number One would probably still be gone; NBC was fine with the character, but didn't like the fact that GR had cast his mistress in the role, and GR chose to scuttle the character rather than admit it was the casting that was the issue. Tyler and Colt got lukewarm reactions from the network, partly because NBC execs at the time wanted the show to have a more ethnically diverse cast.

So I really don't think the show would've been that different if there hadn't been a second pilot. Maybe we would've had Pike instead of Kirk, but maybe not, and I doubt the other pilot characters would've been kept for long. However, the show might have failed sooner because the network failed to accurately assess its budget. That's the real reason they needed to do a second pilot. "The Cage" was a grand, cinematic production meant to prove that Desilu was capable of mounting the most sophisticated SF show ever made for television at the time. But that made it lousy as a pilot, because it didn't reflect the content or budgetary and logistical requirements of a typical episode, something the network would need to know in order to allocate a budget for the season. If they'd jumped the gun and picked up the show without the second pilot, then their budget estimates might've been unrealistically high. And if the show had eaten up too much money, it would've been more vulnerable to cancellation.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

... if "The Cage" had not been rejected as the original pilot? When would Kirk have been introduced?

Hard to say. The network didn't reject the Pike character; they were fine with him. But Hunter wasn't willing to commit to a series. Now, when they signed Pike for "The Cage," they had an option on him for the series -- meaning that if the network had bought the series based on that pilot, he would've been contractually obligated to do the series. But they didn't have an option on him for a second pilot, so he declined to participate and they had to recast. So theoretically, if there'd only been one pilot followed by a series, Hunter could've remained as the lead. But it seems like he wouldn't have been too happy about it. So it's possible that even in that case, the producers would've learned of Hunter's reluctance and chosen to let him go and recast (as was the case with Genevieve Bujold as the original Captain Janeway).

Interesting; a Dan Briggs-Jim Phelps might've been pulled then. When Steven Hill's religious obligations got in the way of production, his role of Dan Briggs was scaled back and Martain Landau's character became more heavily featured. Hill was eventually replaced in season two sans explanation by Peter Graves.

A similar situation might have happened on Trek with Jeffery Hunter, especiallly if his wife got her way and insisted he be shot from certain angles. Then, Hunter would be canned for holding up production or his role reduced as the season wore on and the breakout character of Spock might've been more in the forefront (without the Shatner-Nimoy feud).

If the show survived a second season, then Pike would've been replaced by another captain possibly played by Shatner or Jack Lord. Pike like Dan Briggs would've never been mentioned again.

 

[Christopher]

^^Hmm, that would've made an interesting situation from the perspective of tie-in novelists and fanfic authors. Assuming that ST had ended up just as popular in the long run, there would've undoubtedly been a novel (and probably a separate, incompatible comic book) telling the "untold story" of how Kirk took over from Pike. And since there would've been no need to make "The Menagerie" to integrate the pilot into the series, Pike needn't have been crippled, and there could've been plenty of books or comics featuring Kirk/Pike teamups.

But just imagine the ripple effect if the first season had featured Pike but the rest of the series had centered on Kirk. It would've made The Wrath of Khan much harder to pull off, since Khan's resentment would've been toward Pike, and Hunter would presumably still have been long deceased. And imagine how different tie-in fiction would've been if Pike rather than Kirk had been in love with Edith Keeler.

 

[Navigator_NCC2120]

If the show survived a second season, then Pike would've been replaced by another captain possibly played by Shatner or Jack Lord. Pike like Dan Briggs would've never been mentioned again.

Hell, if the Star Trek Producers hired Jack Lord as the captain for the remainder of the series then the producers may have pulled a "Darren (actor) switched with no explanation/acknowledgement" as was done in the 1960s tv series "Bewitched". Jeffrey Hunter as Capt. Pike during season 1 and then Jack Lord as Capt. Pike during seasons 2 and 3 of Star Trek. We will never know.


Navigator NCC-2120 USS Entente
/\

 

[Christopher]

Hell, if the Star Trek Producers hired Jack Lord as the captain for the remainder of the series then the producers may have pulled a "Darren (actor) switched with no explanation/acknowledgement" as was done in the 1960s tv series "Bewitched". Jeffrey Hunter as Capt. Pike during season 1 and then Jack Lord as Capt. Pike during seasons 2 and 3 of Star Trek. We will never know.

If they'd been inclined to do that, just recast the actor and keep the name, they would've done it with Shatner. Pike and first-season Kirk were essentially the same character: serious, dedicated military officer, driven by duty to his ship above all, lonely and isolated by his command, dreaming of an escape he knows he can't have, only able to confide in his doctor. For that matter, Boyce and McCoy were the same character too. All that changed were the names. So they could've just as easily kept the names -- had Shatner be the second Pike and Kelley the second Boyce.

I believe they changed the names because Roddenberry hoped to find some way to incorporate the pilot footage into the show, and therefore went with the idea of Pike, Boyce et al. being an earlier crew for the ship, thus leaving room for using the rejected pilot as a flashback of some sort. Given all the cast changes that would probably still have happened for various reasons (Roddenberry preferring Kelley as the doctor, the network not liking Barrett as Number One and wanting more diverse supporting roles, Hunter wanting out), the series might still have borne little resemblance to "The Cage" even if "The Cage" hadn't been rejected, so GR might've still preferred to use it as flashback material and changed the character names anyway. So if Jack Lord had gotten the part instead of Shatner, the captain's name would still probably have been changed to Kirk (or one of the dozens of other names GR was considering).

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

Speaking of changing captains, David Gerrold wrote an alternate reality/universe short story on the subject. It was entitled "The Kennedy Enterprise" and told how JFK, who was an actor instead of a politician, came to become Captain Jake Logan on Star Track (no that's not a typo, in the story it's Track instead of Trek). It appears in the collection, Alternate Gerrolds.

 

[Maurice]

Considering the scuttlebutt that Hunter's wife started making too many demands (ostensibly on his behalf), I'd think the chances are we'd still have had Kirk.

...with Jeffery Hunter, especiallly if his wife got her way and insisted he be shot from certain angles. Then, Hunter would be canned for holding up production or his role reduced as the season wore on...

What are the sources for these assertions? I've previously quoted everything the Inside Star Trek book has to say about Hunter's wife, and none of this is in it. I'd like to know if there's a factual basis for this or if it's just oft repeated legend.


While a lot of people here think Hunter's Pike would've been a great Captain, in the aftermath of "The Cage" not everyone as Desilu was so certain, as this quote from Bob Justman indicates:

BOB: So when I heard that Bill would be the new captain of the Enterprise, I was pleased. I knew he would bring a much-needed energy to the role, an energy we hadn't gotten from Jeff Hunter.

Inside Star Trek, Pages 71-72.
​

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

Considering the scuttlebutt that Hunter's wife started making too many demands (ostensibly on his behalf), I'd think the chances are we'd still have had Kirk.

...with Jeffery Hunter, especiallly if his wife got her way and insisted he be shot from certain angles. Then, Hunter would be canned for holding up production or his role reduced as the season wore on...

What are the sources for these assertions? I've previously quoted everything the Inside Star Trek book has to say about Hunter's wife, and none of this is in it. I'd like to know if there's a factual basis for this or if it's just oft repeated legend.


While a lot of people here think Hunter's Pike would've been a great Captain, in the aftermath of "The Cage" not everyone as Desilu was so certain, as this quote from Bob Justman indicates:

BOB: So when I heard that Bill would be the new captain of the Enterprise, I was pleased. I knew he would bring a much-needed energy to the role, an energy we hadn't gotten from Jeff Hunter.

Inside Star Trek, Pages 71-72.
​

I thought it had come from Inside Star Trek, but I was wrong. I can't find my copy of that book, but did find it in another book. It comes from Shatner's Star Trek Memories.

Here is the relevant passage:

Excerpt from Star Trek Memories by William Shatner with Chris Kreski, pg. 70

Apparently there were problems with Jeffery. Not while he was shooting or on the set or anything like that, but afterward. They started when the go-ahead came in for a second pilot, and Hunter's wife, who was an ex-model, suddenly started coming to production meetings. Evidently she hated the first pilot, and as a result she began to frequently storm into Gene's office, loudly making demands like "from now on, my Jeff must only be shot from certain angles," and apparently it became "Jeff wants this" and "Jeff demands this." Gene later told me that he'd much rather be dealing with Jeff and his agent, or even Jeff and a gorilla, than Jeff and his wife. He continued that there were so many tantrums, restrictions and ultimatums being laid out on the table that he finally thought, "Well, I can't possibly do an entire series like this. They'll drive me nuts."

Now I leave it up to others to consider whether this qualifies as a "factual source." The story is hardly first-hand, and is second-hand at best filtered through Shatner's "memory." Both Inside Star Trek and Star Trek Memories have their inaccuracies, but I would consider the former a better source than the latter.

 

[Maurice]

Here is the relevant passage:

Excerpt from Star Trek Memories by William Shatner with Chris Kreski, pg. 70
<snip>

Now I leave it up to others to consider whether this qualifies as a "factual source." The story is hardly first-hand, and is second-hand at best filtered through Shatner's "memory." Both Inside Star Trek and Star Trek Memories have their inaccuracies, but I would consider the former a better source than the latter.

I'd call that heresay, and frankly, rather unbelievable. First, if Inside Star Trek is correct, she saw the pilot for the first (and probably only) time when she told them Jeff is a movie star and not interested in doing another pilot. It's beyond unlikely she'd have seen the dailies during the shoot. As such, it strains credibilty to believe she'd come in and make the demands mentioned in Shat's book. Inside Star Trek's account makes it seem that her appearance at the screening was somewhat unexpected, so it doesn't seem plausible that this idea of her making all these demands is true, especially since the book relates she was polite but firm in a "no thanks" manner.

Clearly, there's no way of knowing what actually transpired, but my bullshit alarm goes off on stories like this...they sound like on of Gene's fanciful convention stories that are mostly fiction.