How Would Captain Kirk Handle a Mutiny?
- Thread starter Captain Shatner
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GR specifically forbade "real" mutiny storylines when he still helmed TOS, believing that a crew of highly skilled astronauts who were all officers (his thinking at the time) would never do so. He also thought, as storytelling, it was pretty amateur-hour.
On the other hand, as soon as TNG launched -- uh, oh! -- alien scorpions are inculcating mutiny at the highest levels of Starfleet!
Anyway, it's fun to imagine some circumstance under which it might occur to TOS Kirk. I just can't come up with a non-mirror universe scenario, though. "Obsession" came closest. And perhaps the crew should have mutinied 30 seconds into "The Enterprise Incident."
(Speaking of the mirror universe, our own Kirk would have likely handled things the same way as the officers there. You want my ship? Fine, meet my security team. I'll talk to you about this later, on the other side of those glowy things that frame the entry to the brig.)
On the other hand, as soon as TNG launched -- uh, oh! -- alien scorpions are inculcating mutiny at the highest levels of Starfleet!
Anyway, it's fun to imagine some circumstance under which it might occur to TOS Kirk. I just can't come up with a non-mirror universe scenario, though. "Obsession" came closest. And perhaps the crew should have mutinied 30 seconds into "The Enterprise Incident."
(Speaking of the mirror universe, our own Kirk would have likely handled things the same way as the officers there. You want my ship? Fine, meet my security team. I'll talk to you about this later, on the other side of those glowy things that frame the entry to the brig.)
Does not stand to reason, "leading a mutiny" is not a capability that just anyone has. But I wonder if we are talking past each other, because we're not using terms the same way. We should clarify the distinction between mutiny (multiple people conspiring to overthrow command) and insubordination (an individual refusing to obey lawful commands).
"Dud" captains is an interesting phrase. I wouldn't characterize Garth or Captain Tracey as "duds".
I think, at the level he's talking about, I would mostly agree with him. This isn't a casually thrown-together group: these people have worked their asses off to get there. Hell, it's tough to imagine an actual mutiny on a US Navy ship, absent an extraordinary "Crimson Tide" -like situation. And US Navy sailors have not gone thru nearly as much training, or competed nearly as hard, as Starfleet officers & crew.
In addition to spores and what-not, we do get one real, actual mutiny in TOS. The officers of the Enterprise mutiny against a seemingly deranged Kirk in Turnabout Intruder. We the audience (and eventually Spock) knew that wasn't the "real" Kirk; but the crew did not know. Yet they mutinied. I don't mean Spock & McCoy & Scotty, I'm thinking of the next tier down. Sulu and the lieutenants.
Think how extraordinary a situation that was. The captain was behaving erratically, the XO first doubted him then openly opposed him, and the captain issued unlawful orders. (Or at least Sulu's dialogue suggests the orders are unlawful, when he talks about there being no violations of General Order 4.) Sulu et al staged their passive rebellion after Spock & McCoy & Scotty were locked up. They didn't conspire with the senior officers; their objection was the plan to have executions.
A lot of people object to portions of Turnabout Intruder, but I think the trial and mutiny aspects of the episode are especially well done. Not "amateur hour" at all: but it took a hell of a lot of of setup to get there. In the normal course of hour-long episodes, that would be a trick you could pull only once every few seasons. So I'm saying, I mostly agree with GR, but the exception can be interesting, with very careful plotting.
Very true! I had completely forgotten about Turnabout Intruder! I guess I had blanked out that particular episode...all I really remember is being so disappointed about how the series ended. But no, you're absolutely right, actual mutinies do seem to be a bit rare aboard Starfleet vessels, now that I think about it.
I'm remined of a line from an episode of TNG. Spoken by a long dead famous psychiatrist.
"Kill zem.... Kill zem all."
"Kill zem.... Kill zem all."
You and I agree completely. I think GR was thinking of a "real" non-spore, non plak tow, non android-replacement, non-soul-takeover mutiny. (Holy cow, glad I'm not captain!)
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