How Voyager Pushed The Boundaries Of Star Trek

[somebuddyX]

If you look at the ratings pre and post both her introduction and Worf's introduction to DS9, there was a bump in their debut but then both shows continued sliding down. I'm not making any statement and I don't think they shouldn't have added them. It's just funny that it didn't work.

 

[Oddish]

I don't disagree but of course we have the advantage of looking back decades later without the studio and network breathing down our necks making demands and we don't have to deal with audience expectations and

I don't think the studio execs would have cared if B'Elanna had idly mentioned that the new industrial replicator was online and Voyager's first new shuttlecraft would be ready in a week. Or if Janeway's log had mentioned a successful trade with a civilization that used photonic weapons. Or if Harry's collar sprouted a second pip.

If you look at the ratings pre and post both her introduction and Worf's introduction to DS9, there was a bump in their debut but then both shows continued sliding down. I'm not making any statement and I don't think they shouldn't have added them. It's just funny that it didn't work.

If ratings bumped, then it did work, after a fashion. And in any case, Worf was awesome on DS9.

 

[Takeru]

I don't think the studio execs would have cared if B'Elanna had idly mentioned that the new industrial replicator was online and Voyager's first new shuttlecraft would be ready in a week. Or if Janeway's log had mentioned a successful trade with a civilization that used photonic weapons. Or if Harry's collar sprouted a second pip.

But that's also completely unnecessary dialog that would rightfully be removed during rewrites.

 

[Oddish]

But that's also completely unnecessary dialog that would rightfully be removed during rewrites.

We're going to have to agree to disagree on that one.

 

[ReddishAlert]

I like Voyager a ton. I also think that one of the boundaries it pushed is still being pushed. While Janeway isn’t my favorite captain, I do think to this day she gets a lot of sexist over-reaction to the bad choices she makes sometimes when really Picard, Kirk and Sisko also can be questionable at times as well and certainly make errors in judgement and emotional decisions.

That being said, when it first came out my dad and I were a little disappointed it didn’t push boundaries enough. We wanted more Marquis tension, trading with new aliens etc.

Honestly we were so pumped in Basics part 1 that they were going to have to rough it for awhile.

Then it hardly referenced the premise of being away again outside occasionally being a “can we use X to get back” type thing.

People complain TNG didn’t continue effects episode to episode enough and it doesn’t bother me in that show. But voyager for being a show about being stranded really noticeably avoids permanent effects. The Marquis are basically starfleet after season 1, Voyager gets upgrades and alien tech always removed by the next episode etc.

That being said, I enjoy it for what it is

 

[USS Artorius]

I think if they made the 'Year Of Hell' last for a whole season it could have done wonders it's own conceptual fruition. And instead of the massive reset button there could have been some anomalous consequences of the timeline being restored completely, but with some minor or even lasting changes to Voyager and its crew. It's always one of my go-to episodes.

I think the main problem was that the producers didn't want to transition into a serialized format as DS9 was already partly doing that and I assume they wanted to continue the tradition of the episodic format. Tis a shame for sure.

I agree that the cast does pull some serious weight, especially Jeri Ryan - her acting range sky rocketed towards the end of the show along with the rediscovery of her humanity and some of her emotion reactions to loss are heart-wrenching.

Like I said I wanted to avoid discussing the common backlash like "MoRe BoRgS" and "JaNeWaY bAd" and focus on the riskier episodes. One example that sticks in my head is when someone says that the dinosaur aliens from Distant Origin are too far-fetched and implausible. Excuse me but so is gaining inexplicable god powers by passing through the Galactic Barrier (WNMHGB) or landing on a Colony World that just happens to be an exact replica of Nazy Germany. It's still Trek at the end of the day, and I would also agree with the opinion that Enterprise F'D up worse than Voyager as its the only Trek Show in the last 40 Years that has been cancelled before it's time.

Edit: Oh yeah and remember in TNG when Beverly was getting steamy with a magic ghost that lived in a candle? All I'm saying is every Trek show has at least a couple of terrible episodes - I think many people hate Voyager more because it was also filled with so much damn potential, but I believe what we got was still a great series in it's own right.

 

[Lynx]

But DS9 did those things on its own terms. The sexy babes wore standard uniforms (most of the time). The explosions made sense in the context of the story. They went all-in with TNG characters Miles and Worf. And they left the Borg to Voyager.

The difference is that DS9 did it better. OK, they had sexy babes, nothing wrong with that. But they didn't over-do it or exaggerate it as it was with one character in Voyager's later season. As for ENT, I'll get back to that.

Explosions and effects can be OK if they are contributing to the story. With Braga in charge of Voyager, it became too much.

They brought in TNG characters like Miles and Worf to DS9 and that was done in a good way. Of course they knew that TNG characters would be appreciated in DS9 and nothing wrong with that. Tere were also logical reasons that TNG characters should show up on DS9, I mean The Federation, Starfleet and everything.

But on Voyager? In the Delta Quadrant?
Actually, it was OK to see Barclay in Projections and Riker in Death Wish and i must admit that they never over-did it in Voyager. But it was a lot of desperate thinking among those in charge of Voyager. Instead of pulling up items from TNG in some sort of panicking, they should have built up something unique with Voyager which actually had a wonderful premise for that.

When it comes to The Borg, keeping them out of the DS9 story was one of the best thing those in charge did.

The Borg were finished after Best Of Both Worlds and the humanization of The Borg which started with Hugh an continued with The Borg Queen and maybe Seven. At that point The Borg had lost everything which made them interesting. In fact, both the cardassians and The Dominion were far more interesting and in some ways even more scary than The Borg after Best Of Both Worlds.

As for Voyager... like I said, I find it infuriating that so many of its flaws could have been corrected so easily. But I still enjoy watching it (some episodes more than others).

I can agree on that. I still like the characters. They were great!
And I like the first three seasons of the series. But I can't help thinking what the series could have become with better writers and producers.

It reminds me a bit of NCIS New Orleans which was great in the first seasons but turned into a total mess due to certain producers who kicked out actresses and deleted their characters for "not being ****able enough, then adding bad characters and turning the whole show into a mess with the main character constantly seing hallucinations, not to mention ridiculous "enemies" and overall bad story telling.

I must admit that Voyager, despite for one episode, never became that bad.

As for Enterprise, I think that it squandered its premise far worse than Voyager did: T'Pol's outfit was ludicrous, given that Vulcans normally wear loose-fitting robelike garments. Including transporters and 24th century weapons was just dumb. And don't get me started on the temporal cold war.

"Enterprise" was wrong from the start. A retro series which looked more like a spin-off to any other SF-series than the TOS it was supposed to resemble. Add to that bad characters and a constanly messing-up of established Star Trek history.

And T'Pol........I must admit that she made me see Seven in a different way that i had done from the start. Seven did at least have some quality and was played by a great actress. T'Pol was nothing of that.

 

[Ragitsu]

I wanted more Tuvok (and Chakotay).

 

[Lynx]

Voyager had immense potential to break new ground. And yes, it broke some... but far less than it could have. Indeed, the most neglected characters were arguably the ones that could have broken the most.

Kes, because of her mayfly lifespan, could have been a microcosm of life, marrying, having kids, growing old... basically, what happened in "Before and After". Instead, we got a slightly altered variation on "Transfigurations" and "Journey's End".

Harry could have been our first Lower Decker main character, where we follow his journey from obscurity to importance. Instead... in this regard, he was not an ensign for seven years; he wasn't an ensign at all. He was a senior officer who just happened to only have one pip on his collar.

And Chakotay could have been even more of a rogue than Kira was, ever straining at the proverbial leash... nope. He was a better Starfleet officer than Janeway was.



Aside from the fact that no one else in Trek history gets disciplined for banging an alien. Not even Riker, after he almost got the Enterprise enslaved by a video game.

I disagree on Kes. That ridiculous lifespan was a ball and chain for the character.She should have been given a human-like lifespan and became a science officer, counselor or something like that.

As for Harry, I totally agree. he could have become much more than just "young ensign Kim", something like McGee in NCIS who started out like something of a geek but developed into a good field agent and investigator during the years.

Chakotay had a great premise and could have been more like Kira was on DS9. I think that he was good in the first seasons, like in episodes like Initiations, Maneuvers and Nemesis.

TNG:s The Game was a great episode. I'm actually surprised that riker got away with what he did, almost making it possible for aliens to get control over the ship. But Picard was fooled too. By Riker actually, maybe therefore Riker got away.

 

[Miltonic]

Along with TOS it's my favourite Star Trek series. I haven't seen any of the latter Star Trek projects apart from the awful 2009 film version. I just don't think cerebral Star Trek can be produced anymore. There has been to great a cultural shift and coarsening of attitudes for great Star Trek to be made today. Enterprise was mediocre as well. Voyager was the last great Star Trek series.

 

[Oddish]

As for Harry, I totally agree. he could have become much more than just "young ensign Kim", something like McGee in NCIS who started out like something of a geek but developed into a good field agent and investigator during the years.

His character was practically created for that. I mean, look at how far Nog on DS9 came. Can you imagine if the same effort had been made with Harry?

TNG:s The Game was a great episode. I'm actually surprised that riker got away with what he did, almost making it possible for aliens to get control over the ship. But Picard was fooled too. By Riker actually, maybe therefore Riker got away.

It's a good thing that one, Wes was present. Two, he wasn't into games. And three, he had the good sense to have a second string in his bow (i.e. Data).

Enterprise was mediocre as well. Voyager was the last great Star Trek series.

Voyager had a great cast and a great premise... and showrunners who were unwilling to make proper use of either. I more consider it a good series with some brilliant moments.

 

[Miltonic]

Voyager had a great cast and a great premise... and showrunners who were unwilling to make proper use of either. I more consider it a good series with some brilliant moments.

The first two seasons of VOY are sublime and every character is developed and explored. Season 3 of Voyager is also of a similar high standard. It's during season 4 which despite having several outstanding blockbuster episodes is very much tailored for Seven of Nine. VOY became the Seven of Nine show for a while such was the popularity of the character. Unfortunately the supporting cast became quite generic and stock and it's only really Seven and the Doctor who shine in the later seasons.

 

[Oddish]

The first two seasons of VOY are sublime and every character is developed and explored.

Some of them. Chakotay went Starfleet real quick, Neelix was reduced to comic relief, B'Elanna completed half her potential character growth in one episode, and Harry was just a durable redshirt.

 

[Miltonic]

Some of them. Chakotay went Starfleet real quick, Neelix was reduced to comic relief, B'Elanna completed half her potential character growth in one episode, and Harry was just a durable redshirt.

At least the back story of Chakotay and his ancestry was prominent in the first two seasons. He was a real character but started to fade away in season 3 and by season 4 he was a stock character. Season 5,6 and 7 he is a complete non-entity. Why did we never see his father again during vision quest after season 2?