How To Save American Public Schools Pt. 1

[Dayton3]

I've wondered about the problem of public education in America for a number of years, more so since becoming an educator myself.

After talking to hundreds of teachers and administrators over the years, I've come up with a few things that must be done to really save and reform public education in the United States.

Number One.

Fight Absenteeism (hope I didn't put too many e's but I'm on lunch)

The main reason students do poorly in schools today isn't that they aren't smart enough or the teachers aren't good enough.

The main reason is the most basic.

THEY MISS TOO MUCH SCHOOL!!!

Most schools give a student a failing grade if they miss too many days of a class. And even if they don't it is next to impossible to keep up if they are regularly absent.

Even my top of the line A students routinely miss a couple of days a month. It doesn't sound like much, but how many jobs would someone keep if they miss 24 days a year?

School districts and states need to tighten down on absent students and their parents dramatically. Forget incentives for perfect or near perfect attendence. That has been tried already.

Attack the problem where it hurts. That is the pocketbook.

Fine parents or guardians HEAVILY who have kids missing school
excessively.

If they can't control their kids enough to get them to school, they have no business with parental rights anyway. Strip them of those rights.

I guarantee that once a parent is forced to pay a $500 fine that they will move heaven and earth to make certain their kids get to school.

Conquer absenteeism, and one third of the battle to improve schools is won.

 

[Alpha Romeo]

Your remedy? Fine and then strip of rights...good luck with that. You'll need it.

Not only is it a bad idea, but I doubt it'd stand up to legal challenge.

 

[Dayton3]

Your remedy? Fine and then strip of rights...good luck with that. You'll need it.

Not only is it a bad idea, but I doubt it'd stand up to legal challenge.

Why is it a bad idea?

People respond to financial losses.

 

[Alpha Romeo]

Your remedy? Fine and then strip of rights...good luck with that. You'll need it.

Not only is it a bad idea, but I doubt it'd stand up to legal challenge.

Why is it a bad idea?

People respond to financial losses.

I could give two shits about the financial part, it's the stripping of parental rights that won't fly., Just because your kid cuts class isn't grounds for taking him outta your house.

Perhaps you should pay more attention to the stickys at the top of the forum?

 

[Dayton3]

Your remedy? Fine and then strip of rights...good luck with that. You'll need it.

Not only is it a bad idea, but I doubt it'd stand up to legal challenge.

Why is it a bad idea?

People respond to financial losses.

I could give two shits about the financial part, it's the stripping of parental rights that won't fly., Just because your kid cuts class isn't grounds for taking him outta your house.

Perhaps you should pay more attention to the stickys at the top of the forum?

I didn't think ideas on improving education were an inately controversial subject.

My position stands though. If a parent has so little control over their kid that they can't even get them to school, then they don't deserve to keep their parental rights.

 

[Alpha Romeo]

Why is it a bad idea?

People respond to financial losses.

I could give two shits about the financial part, it's the stripping of parental rights that won't fly., Just because your kid cuts class isn't grounds for taking him outta your house.

Perhaps you should pay more attention to the stickys at the top of the forum?

I didn't think ideas on improving education were an inately controversial subject.

My position stands though. If a parent has so little control over their kid that they can't even get them to school, then they don't deserve to keep their parental rights.

Your position is not legally sound. How could removal of a child into foster care be in the child's best interest? Your plan is too simplistic.

 

[Dayton3]

I could give two shits about the financial part, it's the stripping of parental rights that won't fly., Just because your kid cuts class isn't grounds for taking him outta your house.

Perhaps you should pay more attention to the stickys at the top of the forum?

I didn't think ideas on improving education were an inately controversial subject.

My position stands though. If a parent has so little control over their kid that they can't even get them to school, then they don't deserve to keep their parental rights.

Your position is not legally sound. How could removal of a child into foster care be in the child's best interest? Your plan is too simplistic.

It is a general idea. Not a detailed plan.

The idea of punishing parental incompetence though is quite sound.

Isn't one of the basics of parenting being able to exercise some control over your childs physical location?

 

[SeerSGB]

Can we fine the schools/teachers that let kids slip out the backdoor after they're dropped off?

In my 2nd highschool, it was a very well known practice for our parents or the bus to drop us off, then just wait a minute or two, go out to the parking lot, get in your buddy's car and leave. After they restricted access to the parking lot-- by putting a volunteer out there to stop people-- during school hours, the folks wanting to leave just parked a block or two over, walked through the building up to the cafeteria, out the back door, and down the road and bango they're gone.

It's not uncommon for parents to not know their kid is racking up the absentees if the kid is really set on not going to school.

 

[Dayton3]

Can we fine the schools/teachers that let kids slip out the backdoor after they're dropped off?

In my 2nd highschool, it was a very well known practice for our parents or the bus to drop us off, then just wait a minute or two, go out to the parking lot, get in your buddy's car and leave. After they restricted access to the parking lot-- by putting a volunteer out there to stop people-- during school hours, the folks wanting to leave just parked a block or two over, walked through the building up to the cafeteria, out the back door, and down the road and bango they're gone.

It's not uncommon for parents to not know their kid is racking up the absentees if the kid is really set on not going to school.

That is the parents fault then. Not the schools.

 

[SeerSGB]

Can we fine the schools/teachers that let kids slip out the backdoor after they're dropped off?

In my 2nd highschool, it was a very well known practice for our parents or the bus to drop us off, then just wait a minute or two, go out to the parking lot, get in your buddy's car and leave. After they restricted access to the parking lot-- by putting a volunteer out there to stop people-- during school hours, the folks wanting to leave just parked a block or two over, walked through the building up to the cafeteria, out the back door, and down the road and bango they're gone.

It's not uncommon for parents to not know their kid is racking up the absentees if the kid is really set on not going to school.

That is the parents fault then. Not the schools.

How you figure?

Parents drop off kids or kid right bus to school. Teachers knew what was going on and never stopped it. If the kids are sent to school on the bus or dropped off by the parents, then it's a logical assumption that they made it to school. At that point it's up to the teachers and the staff to insure their safety, which includes making sure they stay on the premises of the school.

 

[Alpha Romeo]

I didn't think ideas on improving education were an inately controversial subject.

My position stands though. If a parent has so little control over their kid that they can't even get them to school, then they don't deserve to keep their parental rights.

Your position is not legally sound. How could removal of a child into foster care be in the child's best interest? Your plan is too simplistic.

It is a general idea. Not a detailed plan.

The idea of punishing parental incompetence though is quite sound.

Isn't one of the basics of parenting being able to exercise some control over your childs physical location?

Whatever dude...your idea sucks.

 

[Misfit Toy]

Isn't one of the basics of parenting being able to exercise some control over your childs physical location?

Is one of the basics of teaching being able to exercise some control over your students?

 

[Turbo]

Isn't one of the basics of parenting being able to exercise some control over your childs physical location?

Is one of the basics of teaching being able to exercise some control over your students?

No, because it's all the parents' fault and the teachers are both blameless and have their hands tied. [/sarcasm]

 

[ParticleMan]

Isn't one of the basics of parenting being able to exercise some control over your childs physical location?

Is one of the basics of teaching being able to exercise some control over your students?

Of course it is, but what do you do when the student and the parent refuse to recognize the authority of the teacher in the classroom? And when the school/school system has no real recourse for punishing bad behavior?

How do you deal with a student who does not care about grades, graduating or any sort of the kind of punishment that a school can dish out, like suspension or detention?

What do you do when the parents are absolutely convinced that their little angel could never be as bad in class as you as the teacher have observed them to be and will not believe you regardless of what you say?

As a former teacher who is going back into it soon, the teacher/student relationship is predicated upon the notion that a student will show some level of respect to that authority figure in the room. When that breaks down, what is left for a teacher to do?

Yes, it is our job to make the material accessible and relevant to the student and to help them as best as we can, but that still doesn't take into account what to do when the student or parents simply do not give a damn.

I'd be genuinely interested to hear what those on the outside of the educational system looking in would suggest that we can do to solve this issue...

 

[SeerSGB]

Cameras in the classroom, buses, and halls of all public-schools. I'm serious. That way there's a visual record of both the teacher and the student, and when the shit hits the fan there's evidence of what happened. Parents want to play "my kid would never do that", well here's the evidence that they did. Teacher says, I never did/said that, here's the evidence that they did or or didn't.

 

[ParticleMan]

Can we fine the schools/teachers that let kids slip out the backdoor after they're dropped off?

In my 2nd highschool, it was a very well known practice for our parents or the bus to drop us off, then just wait a minute or two, go out to the parking lot, get in your buddy's car and leave. After they restricted access to the parking lot-- by putting a volunteer out there to stop people-- during school hours, the folks wanting to leave just parked a block or two over, walked through the building up to the cafeteria, out the back door, and down the road and bango they're gone.

It's not uncommon for parents to not know their kid is racking up the absentees if the kid is really set on not going to school.

That is the parents fault then. Not the schools.

How you figure?

Parents drop off kids or kid right bus to school. Teachers knew what was going on and never stopped it. If the kids are sent to school on the bus or dropped off by the parents, then it's a logical assumption that they made it to school. At that point it's up to the teachers and the staff to insure their safety, which includes making sure they stay on the premises of the school.

How would you recommend that teachers and staff do this? I mean, sure if you are talking about elementary or middle schoolers, it is a little simpler, but what about the 16 year old junior who just leaves? Should we physically restrain them? What punishment could you give a near-adult aged student who doesn't care enough about school to bother sticking around once they get there in the morning?

I'm not saying I agree with the notion of stripping parental rights, but if we are going to continue with the "compulsatory education for 12 years" model, then we have to think outside the box to some degree...

 

[ParticleMan]

Cameras in the classroom, buses, and halls of all public-schools. I'm serious. That way there's a visual record of both the teacher and the student, and when the shit hits the fan there's evidence of what happened. Parents want to play "my kid would never do that", well here's the evidence that they did. Teacher says, I never did/said that, here's the evidence that they did or or didn't.

Personally speaking, as a teacher, that wouldn't bother me in the slightest. It keeps everybody honest, protects me from false allegations of abuse and creates a visual record that is undeniable and impartial. It would cut down on "But my snowflake would NEVER do that!" and it would also stop do-nothing teachers who show videos and screw around all class period.

 

[SeerSGB]

That is the parents fault then. Not the schools.

How you figure?

Parents drop off kids or kid right bus to school. Teachers knew what was going on and never stopped it. If the kids are sent to school on the bus or dropped off by the parents, then it's a logical assumption that they made it to school. At that point it's up to the teachers and the staff to insure their safety, which includes making sure they stay on the premises of the school.

How would you recommend that teachers and staff do this? I mean, sure if you are talking about elementary or middle schoolers, it is a little simpler, but what about the 16 year old junior who just leaves? Should we physically restrain them? What punishment could you give a near-adult aged student who doesn't care enough about school to bother sticking around once they get there in the morning?

I'm not saying I agree with the notion of stripping parental rights, but if we are going to continue with the "compulsatory education for 12 years" model, then we have to think outside the box to some degree...

Simple: Is a teacher orders a student to stop and they don't, or they're discovered to have left campus without permission, immediately notify the truancy officer and the parents, log the incident, and impose penalties on the student, anything from fining the studen or community service if the student doesn't have a job, suspension of their license/care registration up to and including mandatory "Detention" in an alternative school.

If we're going to stick with the notion that "Highschool is to get ready to be an adult", then mommy and daddy can't be a buffer between actions and consuqeuences. Besides some kids wouldn't give a flying fuck if their parents had to pay the price for what they [the kids] did, cause it's not coming don on them [the kids]. Make the student directly pay the price if they are above the age of 14.

 

[Dayton3]

I'm all for cameras monitoring all aspects of schools. I've advocated it for a long time.

 

[Misfit Toy]

I'd be genuinely interested to hear what those on the outside of the educational system looking in would suggest that we can do to solve this issue...

What do you think about Dayton's suggestion?

Fine parents or guardians HEAVILY who have kids missing school
excessively.

If they can't control their kids enough to get them to school, they have no business with parental rights anyway. Strip them of those rights.