How to fix the Motion Picture...

[Data Holmes]

Data Holmes -- Why get rid of the "space walk" sequence? I think it helps maintain interest by getting the story a little less shipbound, and also plays quite well with the ambiguity of Spock's motives.

To be perfectly honest, I cut it to allow for the Klingon combat sequence at the end.

Your conclusion is definitely an improvement over the OP's, in that it ties the action sequence into the climax rather than tacking it on afterwards. But I still think it would feel out of place, too obviously shoehorned in for action-lovers. The Klingons would need to be more involved in the story as a whole for them to belong in the climax. I know a lot of Trek fans want to see some action on the big screen, but TMP really is not meant for that. You may as well start fresh with a story that actually lends itself to action.

I like a twist ending, but also like one which is still connected to the story. I thought a klingon ship showing up at the end and trying to claim V'Ger as klingon property was an interesting twist.

As I said before, I was perfectly happy with the climax of the main story, but I thought the character arcs just sort of petered out. With that in mind, here's my TMP "fix":


First, rip off the only good thing Generations did with Kirk: "Your place is on the bridge of your ship."

Have that moment come at the end. The Enterprise has been brought to the centre of the cloud, and a team has to go out and meet V'Ger in person. Of course Decker wants to go -- Ilea's fate will be decided there. But Kirk steps in and tells him that whoever goes out there is likely to die, and the ship needs its captain.

Now we get a two-for-one emotional climax. Decker needs to accept that his responsibilities outweigh his lost love, and finally say "goodbye" to Ilea. Kirk needs to give up the Enterprise and leave the ship knowing that, whatever happens next, he'll never be in command of her again.

Once the torch is passed, it all plays out as before, except that it is Spock who merges with V'Ger. It's at least as fitting this way; they both have what the other most desires. Nimoy wanted out of the franchise at that time, anyway, and TMP was always a more Spock-centric movie than TWoK.

Kirk returns, but doesn't sit in the chair again. Decker takes her out, and Spock gives us our closing voice-over just as in TWoK. I'd also let Ilea-the-probe survive the whole experience, giving us a "curious android" character to take Spock's place as the resident alien (at least until the inevitable Star Trek II: The Search for Spock ).

I think it'd work quite nicely, if we're letting ourselves change the trajectory of the following movies as well. I'd like to have some larger role for Decker once he takes command, just so that we can actually see him do something now that he is captain. Maybe something as simple as making the choice to brave the "buffeting" of V'Ger's transformation long enough to save Kirk and Ilea.

Nice. I like what you did with the ending better than mine, actually.

 

[Unicron]

Thank you. Which ones did you like or dislike, if you don't mind me asking.

I think having more action, like the Klingon/Romulan battle you mention, would be good in the beginning. I also think it's good to include Kirk's anger at his desk job, which is mentioned in the novelization and provides a context for why he wants the Enterprise back so badly. But it is of course omitted from the canon film, so you just have Kirk and Decker at loggerheads for reasons that are less clearly fleshed out.

The alternate version of Spock trying to mind meld with the Ilia probe is good too, as is having the Klingons more involved. I think both your ending and soot's are very interesting ideas.

 

[soot]

I like a twist ending, but also like one which is still connected to the story. I thought a klingon ship showing up at the end and trying to claim V'Ger as klingon property was an interesting twist.

I think I would like it more as just a ship battle. I prefer the big revelation at the end, and it looks like we both agree that wouldn't work with a Klingon gunfight. But maybe if the Enterprise is holding off the Klingons instead of the landing party, it wouldn't interfere as much. Turning the special effects of TMP towards a ship battle a bit more involved than the current opening would be something to see.

Nice. I like what you did with the ending better than mine, actually.

Thanks! I should say that I did like your intro. If it saves us from watching Epsilon Nine get destroyed, it'd tighten things as well. I don't think we really need to have the threat demonstrated twice.

 

[Data Holmes]

I like a twist ending, but also like one which is still connected to the story. I thought a klingon ship showing up at the end and trying to claim V'Ger as klingon property was an interesting twist.

I think I would like it more as just a ship battle. I prefer the big revelation at the end, and it looks like we both agree that wouldn't work with a Klingon gunfight. But maybe if the Enterprise is holding off the Klingons instead of the landing party, it wouldn't interfere as much. Turning the special effects of TMP towards a ship battle a bit more involved than the current opening would be something to see.

I see what you are saying, a good old fashioned ship battle between the refit E and one of the new klingon ships would be real nice... Perhaps you could have klingons beam aboard the E (who's shields are still down from the overloading earler in the film by V'ger's plasma weapons) and have a phasefight in engineering. Multi-level between decks around the core as the klingons try and take over the ship would look real cool. Plus klingon prisoners could be used as part of a sequel movie story line.

Enterprise takes out the klingon cruiser by blasting it in the neck with a few torpedo shots...

Yes. Very cool indeed.

Nice. I like what you did with the ending better than mine, actually.

Thanks! I should say that I did like your intro. If it saves us from watching Epsilon Nine get destroyed, it'd tighten things as well. I don't think we really need to have the threat demonstrated twice.

Ya, I've always thought that would have been a real cool intro to TMP.

I never liked the contrived nature of Epsilon Nine getting taken out. I also never liked the wormhole sequence, but needed to keep the story elements that those two sequences brought to the story. The danger aspect and the Kirk pushing too hard aspect. That's why I brought in the smaller ship, it covers how kirk got placed in charge as an admiral (more than one ship it was a "task unit" with him in overall mission command) which I always disliked in the movie, and his ordering of the second ship ahead and it's loss covers the two elements from cutting the Epsilon Nine and wormhole sequences.

I like your idea of the probe "downloading" into Ilia instead of them copying her all together. It actually ties with my handling of the mind meld better. I changed the way that plays out because I always thought that the spock walk scene was simple exposition used to sell an effects sequence when all of that info should have been discovered from the meld itself. Having spock attack Decker and force a meld showed how far he was willing/driven to go, kept the meld in place so that he could revel the important data on V'ger, and it would be the "short circuiting" event which would allow more Ilia to be in the probe, bringing her to the forefront.


Now take all of my changes up until the post mind meld sickbay scene and then put your ending rework, perhaps with a bit of ship to ship battle inter-cutting or not depending, and we've got a heck of a TMP rewrite.

I always said that Trek is at it's best when made by committee.

 

[xortex]

Add the race the Wan who turn out to be the klingons in the end. The memory nodules could have had Kirk experience a future event that leads to the destruction of Earth and the death of his love - the girl that died in the transporter room. Bring back Sonak too. I liked him.

 

[Kegg]

I agree with the OP. Include the Nogura scene.

Provided you can get Toshiro Mifune for the role. This would have been pretty cool.

The rest, though, mostly no.

Hire a director either familiar with Star Trek (Nimoy, Frakes) or who brought their own vision to the material (Abrams, Meyer). Wise was neither familiar with the material, nor brought a strong vision of his own.

Hire a director with the patience and interest in working with actors who need multiple takes and the guide of careful direction in order to deliver believable performances (I'm writing about, of course, Shatner, but also several of his co-stars).

So basically The Wrath of Khan, or possibly The Voyage Home, First Contact, or Star Trek '09.

Sensible enough, I'd guess, but not all that big on the 'what might have been' department.

 

[Harvey]

Yeah, pretty much.

Toshiro Mifune as Nogura is an excellent choice, though.

 

[STR]

Another example is the Recreation Deck, which was a massive set; I wonder what ever happened to it?

They tore it down after 1 day of shooting because it only had 2 scenes set in it and they needed the space.

 

[Maurice]

I've argued this before...the Klingons returning at the end serves no purpose. We've solved the problem of the story by this point, ergo, it's anticlimactic to have additional action following the climax. Also, really, it's lowering the stakes. You increase the stakes as you head for the climax...you don't defeat an entity with Godlike powers and downship to trading shots with the local thugs.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ The Klingons? At the end?

 

[Anji]

I just wish the cast would look more comfortable. The whole group looks nervous.

 

[Nerdius Maximus]

How would you include a scene with Kirk "demanding" command of the Enterprise? It was never filmed. I suppose they could do an Enterprise finale type thing and bring in an ancient William Shatner to pretend like he's in his thirties again and hope we're all too stupid to notice.

 

[Pauln6]

How would you include a scene with Kirk "demanding" command of the Enterprise? It was never filmed. I suppose they could do an Enterprise finale type thing and bring in an ancient William Shatner to pretend like he's in his thirties again and hope we're all too stupid to notice.

Yikes - they keep using de-aging technology on Patrick Stuart - who knows what they will do next?

I think they should de-age Grace Lee Whitney and put her back in the original show

 

[TMPFan]

Anji, the cast looking stiff I think adds to the realism of people who have been alienated from each other for a couple of years. They regain the mojo I think in the 3rd act of the film (esp. the McCoy Kirk Spock relationship). I would add that a Nogura-Kirk scene would add real dramatic weight to the movie.