How to fix the Motion Picture...

[srombomb]

Number 1-- Show an actual scene of Kirk demanding he get's the Enterprise back-- AKA that meeting w Admiral Nogura we never got to see. Adds more tension.

Number 2-- With a bigger budget, show more Federation ships getting their butts handed to them. Would have made perfect sense Starfleet sent a fleet ahead of the Enterprise, since the Enterprise was running behind schedule to get ready. This creates even more of an antagonist out of Vejur.

Number 3-- Those Klingons that vanished in the beginning? Save them for the end, and when Vejur implodes, have those ships reappear and then the crew of each thinking that this was a "federation" weapon in the end. There's that action confrontation that was truly missing from this big budget Star Trek film. Everything about that ending felt so anti-climactic. It needed Klingons being Klingons and a nice fire fight between the new Enterprise and them. Maybe even add in a saucer seperation scene.

Number 4-- Maybe leave it open for the sequel, a klingon war, with the Klingons being hellbent convinced vejur was a secret federation weapon, leaving Kirk and co. to go and repair relations between the two sides after all was said and done.

Number 5-- Maybe actually make it known (in the movie) that not only is Decker, Matt Decker's son, but create more tension between him and Kirk by writing Will's character as being angry Admiral Kirk allowed his father to get killed during the encounter w the Doomsday machine.

Number 6- Actually finish the damn memory wall sequence, where Kirk goes out trying to find Spock, only to be attacked by those parasites, and getting to see Spock come in and phaser fire those things away from his captain.

Oh right, and make it a PG rating. So you some more violent sequences could have been done.

This movie had so much potential, but due to effects limitations of the time, and too many people w their hand in the pot of the making of this, it got bogged down to an average movie w a fantastic soundtrack and above average special effects.

It's a pity.

 

[Joker]

Utter fanwank bollocks.

 

[Shazam!]

lol

 

[Harvey]

Hire a director either familiar with Star Trek (Nimoy, Frakes) or who brought their own vision to the material (Abrams, Meyer). Wise was neither familiar with the material, nor brought a strong vision of his own.

Hire a director with the patience and interest in working with actors who need multiple takes and the guide of careful direction in order to deliver believable performances (I'm writing about, of course, Shatner, but also several of his co-stars).

Hire a producer who could bring the project in on time and on budget. The first film lacked the judicious spending and forward drive brought to the franchise by Harve Bennet.

But, if you want to talk about how to fix the film given the pieces that we have, the Director's Edition is about the best shot at it as you're going to get.

 

[Penhall99]

Some good ideas, but I think the Director's Edition "fixes" many of the problems it had. The film will never be perfect, though, and I think we just have to accept it.

I find myself wondering "What if..." a lot with the Trek franchise:

What if Star Trek V had turned out the way Shatner wanted?

What if budget for TOS season 3 hadn't been slashed?

What if they made more TOS movies instead of 6?

What if they had spent more time on the script for "Star Trek Generations"?

It's fun (and sometimes painful) to wonder and ponder different things like that, but in the end we've got what we got.

I personally like TMP alot, but yeah, its flawed. Thankfully I'm able to look past the flaws and still enjoy the film, though.

Although now I'm wondering how cool it would have been to see "Star Trek: Planet of the Titans"!

 

[parallax]

I have to admit though (with the exception of perhaps Star Trek XI) the Motion Picture was the only movie to truly depict how large Federation starships are in the Trek universe. The lighting breaths a whole new life into the Enterprise we don't see again (its spectacularly bright in the corridors with the white floodlights near the floor), the sets are HUGE such as the bit of the secondary hull we see when Kirk boards the Ent for the first time. Another example is the Recreation Deck, which was a massive set; I wonder what ever happened to it?

 

[soot]

Number 1-- Show an actual scene of Kirk demanding he get's the Enterprise back-- AKA that meeting w Admiral Nogura we never got to see. Adds more tension.

I agree with this. It would be great to see that confrontation. The only reason I can see to hold it back would be if they wanted a slow build to a "line must be drawn" level outburst towards the end of the film. But we don't have anything close to that.

In fact, I'd say the real anticlimax of the film lies in the Kirk/Decker tension. There's nothing wrong with the set-up, but the resolution wasn't much more than "McCoy gives Kirk a talking to, and then Decker finds something else to do with himself anyway."

None of the other ideas appeal to me, though. It's not an action movie, why shoe-horn in a bunch of action sequences that have nothing to do with the plot?

I have to admit though (with the exception of perhaps Star Trek XI) the Motion Picture was the only movie to truly depict how large Federation starships are in the Trek universe. The lighting breaths a whole new life into the Enterprise we don't see again (its spectacularly bright in the corridors with the white floodlights near the floor), the sets are HUGE such as the bit of the secondary hull we see when Kirk boards the Ent for the first time. Another example is the Recreation Deck, which was a massive set; I wonder what ever happened to it?

I agree entirely. TMP had a larger scope than any Trek movie, and all the space scenes looked magnificent.

 

[Shatmandu]

1. Make it in color.
2. Make it have some humanity.
3. Make the sound quality, especially on the rerecorded dialogue, not horrible.
4. Tighten up the editing.

Joe, fin

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

1. Restore some of the extended TV scenes, like the complete version of the argument between Kirk and McCoy in Kirk's quarters ("And another thing..." "Get out of here, Bones.").

2. Release the extended director's cut on Blu-Ray. And yes, I do know why they couldn't do this before (stupid bloody EFX were only rendered at standard definition ).

 

[CoveTom]

Uh... no.

 

[Brikar99]

Number 1-- Show an actual scene of Kirk demanding he get's the Enterprise back-- AKA that meeting w Admiral Nogura we never got to see. Adds more tension.

Number 2-- With a bigger budget, show more Federation ships getting their butts handed to them. Would have made perfect sense Starfleet sent a fleet ahead of the Enterprise, since the Enterprise was running behind schedule to get ready. This creates even more of an antagonist out of Vejur.

Number 3-- Those Klingons that vanished in the beginning? Save them for the end, and when Vejur implodes, have those ships reappear and then the crew of each thinking that this was a "federation" weapon in the end. There's that action confrontation that was truly missing from this big budget Star Trek film. Everything about that ending felt so anti-climactic. It needed Klingons being Klingons and a nice fire fight between the new Enterprise and them. Maybe even add in a saucer seperation scene.

Number 4-- Maybe leave it open for the sequel, a klingon war, with the Klingons being hellbent convinced vejur was a secret federation weapon, leaving Kirk and co. to go and repair relations between the two sides after all was said and done.

Number 5-- Maybe actually make it known (in the movie) that not only is Decker, Matt Decker's son, but create more tension between him and Kirk by writing Will's character as being angry Admiral Kirk allowed his father to get killed during the encounter w the Doomsday machine.

Number 6- Actually finish the damn memory wall sequence, where Kirk goes out trying to find Spock, only to be attacked by those parasites, and getting to see Spock come in and phaser fire those things away from his captain.

Oh right, and make it a PG rating. So you some more violent sequences could have been done.

This movie had so much potential, but due to effects limitations of the time, and too many people w their hand in the pot of the making of this, it got bogged down to an average movie w a fantastic soundtrack and above average special effects.

It's a pity.

Not a single one of these things does anything to improve the movie at all. What these would do would, in fact, drag it out even further by inserting fifteen minutes of completely unnecessary footage.

Seeing Kirk argue to get the Enterprise back is pointless. The important part of this at all is that after he does, it causes problems with Decker - THAT'S what's important. Don't waste time getting to that.

More Federation starships getting eaten after we already saw Klingon ships and a Federation space station? Again, a waste of time. At this point, the audience would be rolling their eyes and saying, 'Ugh, seriously?' (Though, frankly, many people do this already watching the film as-is)

Bringing back the Klingons at the end, again, a completely unnecessary wrinkle. The only purpose the Klingons serve in this movie is to give us a punchy opening. They're not the antagonists in this picture, so don't force them to be by dragging out the climax in addition to the beginning.

Making the connection to Matt Decker, I guess, sorta adds some extra depth to the the problems between Kirk and Will Decker. But again, the drama functions fine without it so why bother complicating things? And why make the film even less accessible to people who haven't seen the show?

Like a battle with the Klingons, Spock saving Kirk from crazy space parasites just doesn't jive with this film. This isn't an action movie, no matter how much people wish it.

I'm not saying TMP is a perfect film; far from it. Considering the insanity that went on behind the scenes, it's a miracle they even made a coherent picture, dry and slow though it may be. But literally everything you've suggested is the exact opposite of what this movie needs in order to 'fix' it.

 

[Penhall99]

Not a single one of these things does anything to improve the movie at all. What these would do would, in fact, drag it out even further by inserting fifteen minutes of completely unnecessary footage.

Seeing Kirk argue to get the Enterprise back is pointless. The important part of this at all is that after he does, it causes problems with Decker - THAT'S what's important. Don't waste time getting to that.

More Federation starships getting eaten after we already saw Klingon ships and a Federation space station? Again, a waste of time. At this point, the audience would be rolling their eyes and saying, 'Ugh, seriously?' (Though, frankly, many people do this already watching the film as-is)

Bringing back the Klingons at the end, again, a completely unnecessary wrinkle. The only purpose the Klingons serve in this movie is to give us a punchy opening. They're not the antagonists in this picture, so don't force them to be by dragging out the climax in addition to the beginning.

Making the connection to Matt Decker, I guess, sorta adds some extra depth to the the problems between Kirk and Will Decker. But again, the drama functions fine without it so why bother complicating things? And why make the film even less accessible to people who haven't seen the show?

Like a battle with the Klingons, Spock saving Kirk from crazy space parasites just doesn't jive with this film. This isn't an action movie, no matter how much people wish it.

I'm not saying TMP is a perfect film; far from it. Considering the insanity that went on behind the scenes, it's a miracle they even made a coherent picture, dry and slow though it may be. But literally everything you've suggested is the exact opposite of what this movie needs in order to 'fix' it.

Don't mince words Brikar, what do you REALLY think?

 

[Brikar99]

Don't mince words Brikar, what do you REALLY think?

42.

 

[RoJoHen]

But literally everything you've suggested is the exact opposite of what this movie needs in order to 'fix' it.

I completely agree.

 

[ncc-1017-e]

leave it alone

 

[Data Holmes]

It seems like this type of topic comes up at least once a year, doesn't it?


Well, here is my ideas for how I would rework TMP.

First off I would have had the opening, precredit sequence, be the crew of epsilon nine watching a battle between a Klingon fleet and Romulian fleet of ships near a previously uncharted nebula inside of Klingon space being observed by a Star Fleet Intelligence Sensor Drone. I would use this sequence to set the scene that those two have been involved in a war for a year or so after a falling apart of their alliance. During the battle several of the Klingon ships try and make a run into the nebula with some Romulian ships in pursuit... this is when suddenly plasma "bursts" fly out of the nebula cloud and "waporize", as checkov would say, the closest ships from both sides.

This catches the star fleet crew off guard who go from "board, popcorn eating, night watchmen" mode to "oh, shit! What was that!" mode and call in commander Branch.

As they monitor the unfolding events, think a mass swarm of bees after someone has hit a nest with a rock, several more ships are zapped as they get close to/fire at the nebula, and the nebula starts to move, accelerating slowly at first but getting toward light speed, on a course for earth.

After the Intelligence Tech reports that the cloud's direction of travel puts it on a course toward earth, he orders the comm tech to open a channel to star fleet intelligence.

Credits roll

Open on Spock on Vulcan... this part remains largely unchanged from the version in film, but tightened a little with the "preachings" by the Vulcan masters cut down.

Then cut to star fleet headquarters, Kirk rushing to a meeting with Nogura. This scene is needed to show that Kirk is not really happy riding a desk and is using this "turn of events" to get an off world mission. Despite his reservations, Nogura puts Kirk in overall command of the mission to intercept the cloud with the newly refit Enterprise and another ship, a Frigate or Destroyer type ship, with Decker remaining captain of the Enterprise.

Enterprise is rushed out of dock, looses it's science officer in a transporter accident because it is not quite finished with it's refit, and has main drive trouble when they attempt to go into warp once they pass Saturn. Kirk orders the other ship ahead at warp (which turns out to be a mistake in the next scene) while they attempt to fix the problem, continuing under high sub-light speed.

As the other ship makes intercept, Kirk orders it's comm channel to be put up on all shipboard monitors and speakers, and the crew watches the other ship as it tries to hail the cloud, and reports power readings emanating from the center of the cloud, and then gets blasted by one of the plasma "burst" and vanishes. Commander Branch cuts into the comm channel and reports that they have video of the incident from the trailing sensor drone. Kirk orders him to transmit the video, when Decker asks to talk to Kirk in private. Kirk says he will speak to him in his cabin, and McCoy says he will tag along.

The sequence between Kirk, Decker, and McCoy in Kirk's cabin plays out pretty much the same. Decker questions if Kirk is the right man to be leading this mission, that he's been behind a desk for a while and may have lost his "space legs". Kirk is about to protest this when Decker pointed out that seeing the Sensor drone footage of the other ship getting taken out would be crippling to moral on a ship which already has issues. Kirk realizes he's right and gives him the smirking "exec" comment and dismissed him. McCoy starts in on Kirk, and he lets him for a little bit and is about to jump on him when the bridge intercoms in and tells them that a ship is on approach and is requesting permission to dock.

Spock shows up as the passenger on the ship and proceeds to fix the problems with the main drive systems, then proceeds to talk about his "psychic communications" with the entity. This part also remains largely unchanged from the way it was in TMP.

When they intercept the intruder, Kirk orders Decker to take the ship to the heart of the cloud. Decker refuses and Kirk assumes command of the enterprise. McCoy gives the "you're pushing" speech and the ships comes under fire from the cloud. They hold off the attack and Decker and Spock find the transmission and signal to stop the second attack. Again this plays pretty close to the actual events of TMP.


The cloud travel segment is amazing, but needs to be trimmed.

Most of the stuff inside the cloud happens the same: Probe takes Ilia, Ilia probe shows up, intruder starts back toward earth and drops it's "cloud cover", Decker gets assigned to work with the Ilia probe because of the personal past between him and Ilia...

Spock tries to mind meld with the Ilia probe, sneaking up on them as they were leaving the rec room. He nerve pinches Decker and initiates a quick meld with the Ilia probe, but gets "overloaded". Kirk and McCoy watch the events on security feeds and call security and medical teams to the corridor where they find Decker just waking up, Spock unconscious and the Ilia probe standing silently.

In sickbay Kirk, Spock and McCoy put most of the story together from the info Spock got from the mind meld that it was a human probe which fell into a black hole and that it landed on an alien planet of living machines two centuries ago. That it was repaired and sent back but was damaged by something on the trip and went dormant, it's propulsion system acting like a magnet to solar dust creating the nebula around it until the Klingon/Romulian conflict near it woke it back up. That during it's trip back before it went dormant it become self aware and is looking to "complete it's mission".

When they reach earth V'ger sends out it's signal. The no response makes the Ilia probe ask the crew why the creator didn't respond...

This makes them think what she/it meant by "the creator". The big three are stumped thinking it means god or a higher being. Decker then comes up with the "god in their own image" thought, that humanity is the creator..

Ilia probe, which is becoming more Ilia since the mind meld, agrees and the "inner door" opens. At this moment a Klingon ship decloaks from underneath the Enterprise and starts to rush into the next chamber.

The enterprise follows and the Klingons broadcast a "we claim this ship" message to the enterprise and start to transport Klingon solders down toward the area of V'ger where the signal is transmitting from. One of the Klingon solders shoots the antenna cluster on the old probe just as the enterprise is trying to transmit the code.

Kirk decides that they need to beam down and enter the code to the probe manually.

Kirk, Spock, McCoy, Decker, and the Ilia Probe all beam into a compartment near the old probe and make their way to the probe unit. As they get close Kirk and Decker realize that someone has to run over to it and enter the code while the others holds back the Klingons.

Kirk says he will go but the ilia probe holds his arm and tosses him back into a bulkhead... Decker then takes off toward the probe with McCoy shouting after him as Spock checks on Kirk.

As Decker runs to the probe with Ilia probe in tow, they come under fire from the Klingons. Kirk, Spock, and McCoy provide cover fire for them. As Decker starts to enter the code in he gets hit. Kirk and McCoy try and get to him, but he tells them no and waves them back. He finishes the code and the light show starts. McCoy and Spock pull Kirk back and they return to the beam coordinates.

Once they are back on the ship it starts pulling back heading for the entrance to the tube. Once in the transporter room they receive a message from Decker over the intercom, he's there and not at the same time. Think Dave's voice from the end of 2010 when he's talking to HAL.

He says something like "It's ok, Jim. They need you more than they needed me. You will see..." then the signal disappears.

Kirk looks confused, Spock does the eyebrow, and McCoy says "what the hell is that supposed to mean?"

The ship shutters and Kirk says, "lets get to the bridge".

Light show as the V'ger craft phases out, and the enterprise is left floating in space over earth. End scene plays as it does in TMP.

 

[Unicron]

I like some of those suggestions, Data.

 

[Data Holmes]

I like some of those suggestions, Data.

Thank you. Which ones did you like or dislike, if you don't mind me asking.

 

[BriGuy]

Number 1-- Show an actual scene of Kirk demanding he get's the Enterprise back-- AKA that meeting w Admiral Nogura we never got to see. Adds more tension.

Number 2-- With a bigger budget, show more Federation ships getting their butts handed to them. Would have made perfect sense Starfleet sent a fleet ahead of the Enterprise, since the Enterprise was running behind schedule to get ready. This creates even more of an antagonist out of Vejur.

Number 3-- Those Klingons that vanished in the beginning? Save them for the end, and when Vejur implodes, have those ships reappear and then the crew of each thinking that this was a "federation" weapon in the end. There's that action confrontation that was truly missing from this big budget Star Trek film. Everything about that ending felt so anti-climactic. It needed Klingons being Klingons and a nice fire fight between the new Enterprise and them. Maybe even add in a saucer seperation scene.

Number 4-- Maybe leave it open for the sequel, a klingon war, with the Klingons being hellbent convinced vejur was a secret federation weapon, leaving Kirk and co. to go and repair relations between the two sides after all was said and done.

Number 5-- Maybe actually make it known (in the movie) that not only is Decker, Matt Decker's son, but create more tension between him and Kirk by writing Will's character as being angry Admiral Kirk allowed his father to get killed during the encounter w the Doomsday machine.

Number 6- Actually finish the damn memory wall sequence, where Kirk goes out trying to find Spock, only to be attacked by those parasites, and getting to see Spock come in and phaser fire those things away from his captain.

Oh right, and make it a PG rating. So you some more violent sequences could have been done.

This movie had so much potential, but due to effects limitations of the time, and too many people w their hand in the pot of the making of this, it got bogged down to an average movie w a fantastic soundtrack and above average special effects.

It's a pity.

Not a single one of these things does anything to improve the movie at all. What these would do would, in fact, drag it out even further by inserting fifteen minutes of completely unnecessary footage.

Seeing Kirk argue to get the Enterprise back is pointless. The important part of this at all is that after he does, it causes problems with Decker - THAT'S what's important. Don't waste time getting to that.

More Federation starships getting eaten after we already saw Klingon ships and a Federation space station? Again, a waste of time. At this point, the audience would be rolling their eyes and saying, 'Ugh, seriously?' (Though, frankly, many people do this already watching the film as-is)

Bringing back the Klingons at the end, again, a completely unnecessary wrinkle. The only purpose the Klingons serve in this movie is to give us a punchy opening. They're not the antagonists in this picture, so don't force them to be by dragging out the climax in addition to the beginning.

Making the connection to Matt Decker, I guess, sorta adds some extra depth to the the problems between Kirk and Will Decker. But again, the drama functions fine without it so why bother complicating things? And why make the film even less accessible to people who haven't seen the show?

Like a battle with the Klingons, Spock saving Kirk from crazy space parasites just doesn't jive with this film. This isn't an action movie, no matter how much people wish it.

I'm not saying TMP is a perfect film; far from it. Considering the insanity that went on behind the scenes, it's a miracle they even made a coherent picture, dry and slow though it may be. But literally everything you've suggested is the exact opposite of what this movie needs in order to 'fix' it.

One of the best posts I can recall ever reading on this message board, ever.

 

[soot]

Data Holmes -- Why get rid of the "space walk" sequence? I think it helps maintain interest by getting the story a little less shipbound, and also plays quite well with the ambiguity of Spock's motives.

Your conclusion is definitely an improvement over the OP's, in that it ties the action sequence into the climax rather than tacking it on afterwards. But I still think it would feel out of place, too obviously shoehorned in for action-lovers. The Klingons would need to be more involved in the story as a whole for them to belong in the climax. I know a lot of Trek fans want to see some action on the big screen, but TMP really is not meant for that. You may as well start fresh with a story that actually lends itself to action.

As I said before, I was perfectly happy with the climax of the main story, but I thought the character arcs just sort of petered out. With that in mind, here's my TMP "fix":


First, rip off the only good thing Generations did with Kirk: "Your place is on the bridge of your ship."

Have that moment come at the end. The Enterprise has been brought to the centre of the cloud, and a team has to go out and meet V'Ger in person. Of course Decker wants to go -- Ilea's fate will be decided there. But Kirk steps in and tells him that whoever goes out there is likely to die, and the ship needs its captain.

Now we get a two-for-one emotional climax. Decker needs to accept that his responsibilities outweigh his lost love, and finally say "goodbye" to Ilea. Kirk needs to give up the Enterprise and leave the ship knowing that, whatever happens next, he'll never be in command of her again.

Once the torch is passed, it all plays out as before, except that it is Spock who merges with V'Ger. It's at least as fitting this way; they both have what the other most desires. Nimoy wanted out of the franchise at that time, anyway, and TMP was always a more Spock-centric movie than TWoK.

Kirk returns, but doesn't sit in the chair again. Decker takes her out, and Spock gives us our closing voice-over just as in TWoK. I'd also let Ilea-the-probe survive the whole experience, giving us a "curious android" character to take Spock's place as the resident alien (at least until the inevitable Star Trek II: The Search for Spock ).

I think it'd work quite nicely, if we're letting ourselves change the trajectory of the following movies as well. I'd like to have some larger role for Decker once he takes command, just so that we can actually see him do something now that he is captain. Maybe something as simple as making the choice to brave the "buffeting" of V'Ger's transformation long enough to save Kirk and Ilea.