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How to change from Homosapiens only club?

More Rubber faces in the crew?

  • Yes

    Votes: 9 29.0%
  • No, were good with showing more diverse human crew

    Votes: 6 19.4%
  • As long as its a good character, I don't care what they are

    Votes: 15 48.4%
  • Other

    Votes: 2 6.5%

  • Total voters
    31
Wait...weren't Deltans meant to be telepathic? I could have sworn....
More able to absorb sensations of pain through touch. Not direct telepathy.

Alien diversity would be nice, but the question is what do you want from it in the show? Do you want the visual acknowledgement that aliens exist and that the Federation has many species in it? Or do you want diversity for the sake of storytelling, of exploring different cultures? Garak was engaging because he was an enigmatic ex-spy. His being Cardassian, while it certainly influenced much of his character, wasn't his main draw.
This is exactly my question. How does it expand within telling the story? If it it just a visually interesting alien with no descriptors beyond "Looks cool" then it leaves a very hollow feeling for me.

I've always felt Trek dropped the ball quite often by making our human characters native to Earth. Some of the earlier colony worlds could have evolved quite differently over the few hundred years til TNG's era. Given how diverse human culture already is today, it always surprised me more wasn't done with that.
Also an excellent point. I would love more of the differences between Mars and Earth or other human colonies. The variety in cultures would be as interesting to me in the human colonists as the aliens.
 
I've always felt Trek dropped the ball quite often by making our human characters native to Earth. Some of the earlier colony worlds could have evolved quite differently over the few hundred years til TNG's era. Given how diverse human culture already is today, it always surprised me more wasn't done with that.
I agree very much with this. If I'm not mistaken the only two main characters we ever got were Tasha (from Mad Max world, whatever it's called) and Beverly, who's technically a Lunarian, I believe, but nothing ever came of it. To be honest I really wish we'd seen more.

More able to absorb sensations of pain through touch. Not direct telepathy.
Ah okay I must have conflated Ilia with Troi too much, since the latter character originated, in part, in the former. Well without telepathy then I agree that Deltans are fairly ill-conceived as they are now (like I'm pretty sure they, their hyper-sexed culture and their bald heads were just created to tickle a particular itch of Roddenberry's)
But again, a skilled and motivated writer might still turn them interesting in some way by expanding their culture.
And other alien cultures are pretty useful. Like the whole Bajoran occupation and their relationship with the Cardassians would have been difficult to do with humans without stumbling into unfortunate territory.
 
But again, a skilled and motivated writer might still turn them interesting in some way by expanding their culture.
And other alien cultures are pretty useful. Like the whole Bajoran occupation and their relationship with the Cardassians would have been difficult to do with humans without stumbling into unfortunate territory.
Agreed. Use of aliens should always be well written to support the need of the story.
 
I kinda feel the Bajorans were a wasted opportunity. The reality of the Prophets being aliens should have erupted a major Reformation movement on the planet with holy wars being fought and whatnot. Lots of clashing factions and differing belief systems both secular and theistic and mixes of both. The Prophets too could have thrown us some curveballs by being more divine in disconcerting ways for the Starfleeters.

Also, in TNG’s “Ensign Ro,” Picard says they spread art and culture when humans were barely walking erect. That’s 500,000 years ago, right? It would have been fascinating to explore what happened to the Bajorans and the galaxy in all that time. Maybe there were ancient Bajorans an interstellar empire that neared the edges of modern Federation space. Maybe the Ancient Orions (mentioned in TOS & TAS) were their great competitors. Maybe we find out that their roles were reversed way back when, with the Orions civilized and advanced and the Bajorans rough holy warriors of the questionable kind.
 
I kinda feel the Bajorans were a wasted opportunity. The reality of the Prophets being aliens should have erupted a major Reformation movement on the planet with holy wars being fought and whatnot. Lots of clashing factions and differing belief systems both secular and theistic and mixes of both. The Prophets too could have thrown us some curveballs by being more divine in disconcerting ways for the Starfleeters.

Also, in TNG’s “Ensign Ro,” Picard says they spread art and culture when humans were barely walking erect. That’s 500,000 years ago, right? It would have been fascinating to explore what happened to the Bajorans and the galaxy in all that time. Maybe there were ancient Bajorans an interstellar empire that neared the emerges of modern Federation space. Maybe the Ancient Orions (mentioned in TOS & TAS) were their great competitors. Maybe we find out that their roles were reversed way back when, with the Orions civilized and advanced and the Bajorans rough holy warriors of the questionable kind.
The Bajorans were one of the alien races that appealed to me much more than most, aside from the Romulans and Species 8472. I do like your ideas for exploring the Bajorans but I feel that the clashing factions were outside the scope of the story told in DS9.

But, I would still read the hell out of that book series on ancient Bajor.
 
The Bajorans were one of the alien races that appealed to me much more than most, aside from the Romulans and Species 8472. I do like your ideas for exploring the Bajorans but I feel that the clashing factions were outside the scope of the story told in DS9.

But, I would still read the hell out of that book series on ancient Bajor.
Did you read that trilogy that explored the Occupation and how the Cardassians annexed Bajor? I’m curious if I should seek it out. Great cover artwork, too.

EDIT: It’s called the Terok Nor trilogy.
 
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Well, if you want to talk about rubber heads, check out those Talosians. The Vians. The Tellarites. Even Spock's ears were made of latex rubber, as was the Andorian antennae.
TOS had Spock (arguably the most popular character from that show) And the first season had Salt Vampires and Romulans and TOS-style Klingons (and I don't know what else) and the unaired pilot had a green Orion girl and big-headed Talosians. And the later seasons had purple haired people and orange-painted people with bad white wigs and Andorians and Tellarites and ancient, sharp toothed babies in giant bubble ships and diminutive purple people and...and...and...
What can I say, I love all that TOS stuff; I love that you were able to name 7 or 8 unique and memorable species. Whereas Worf and Quark and Neelix and Phlox and Saru [and Bortus] are all made up according to the exact same aesthetic or style with only slight variations, and it’s an omnipresent feature of that brand of Trek which I just happen to dislike.
 
Whereas Worf and Quark and Neelix and Phlox and Saru [and Bortus] are all made up according to the exact same aesthetic or style with only slight variations

I disagree. The bumpy foreheads could get a bit repetitive, but particularly the Ferengi, the Talaxians and...uh...Saru's people (sorry don't wtch enough DISC) look fairly distinctive. I'd also call the Cardassians distinctive, as were the Bolians, the Benzites, the Jem'Hadar, the Rat and Cobra aliens from Lonely Among Us, the Binar, that four-armed piano player Riker talked to when he looked for Picard, or the many, many very distinctive looking background Aliens on DS9 (Dabbo girl with jewels glued to her Parasaurolophus horn, those aliens with "trunks" hanging from the back of their head, Morn...)
I do wish however that they would have employed more non-human skin and hair colours, but well.. Particularly with the Bajorans. While I like their culture and storylines and Kira is one of my favourite Star Trek character, their nose ridges are just lazy (but they apparently had to keep Ro Laren "pretty" for the heterosexual male audience :shrug:) And the Betazoids (who, for the same reason just got black contact lenses)

And well, same could be said about the TOS aliens, a lot of them were just people painted a funny colour or had strange wigs. Stuff like the Gorn or that Yeti-creature suits wouldn't have worked anymore in the 80s, technology wasn't there yet to GCI them and more realistic costumes (I'm talking Star Wars quality) might have been to expensive.
However what I *really* don't understand is how the TNG Andorian makeup could have ended up looking THAT bad when they were one of the better make-up jobs in TOS, a show 20 year older...
 
Conceding that point, for the purpose of discussion, what stories are to be told from using a Deltan vs. a human?
Deltans wanting to serve in Starfleet must take their Oath of Celibacy, for such a hyper-sexual species I could see this having serious issues somewhere down the line (especially if they are the only Deltan on the ship so have no outlet). It could raise some interesting questions around why, is it harmful to non-Deltans physically or mentally, is there something Deltans carry that doesn't effect them but is the equivalent of space-herpes to other races, or is it merely social conventions of other races force them to suppress a key part of their culture merely to fit in? What if a Deltan breaks their vow, is that cause for legal proceedings or punishment in some way (maybe something we'd see as inhumane). What if the idea of Deltans not having sex with other races is something for them to maintain "racial purity", and what if a Deltan female then became pregnant to a Bajoran/Human/Tellarite shipmate what would her fate and the fate of her child be?

Granted some of these topics could be covered with a human crewmember, but with humans seemingly being so evolved by Trek times then it makes it difficult to introduce some concepts. There could be a female character raised on a xenophobic pro-human/anti-alien colony who left for her differing beliefs, then in Starfleet becomes pregnant to an alien shipmate, whilst the crew doesn't bat an eye she could return home at some point for some convoluted reason, either to face being disowned entirely or miraculously changing the bigoted beliefs of her family with the birth of her half-alien child.

Do you want the visual acknowledgement that aliens exist and that the Federation has many species in it?
Yes.

Or do you want diversity for the sake of storytelling, of exploring different cultures?
Also yes.

Garak was engaging because he was an enigmatic ex-spy. His being Cardassian, while it certainly influenced much of his character, wasn't his main draw.
Garak's being Cardassian is central to who he is. Their natural paranoia and xenophobia led them to create their elite intelligence organisation, to monitor its own people as much as other races, weed out dissent and purge those who don't abide by the rule and control of the state, given their loyalty, duty and devotion to Cardassia is at the forefront of their culture. Growing up in that, as the illegitimate son of the head of the Obsidian Order, would warp his ideology so when he lost that and was cast out he had to build himself up with all he'd learned and still find a way to do his duty to the state and find a way to return. But that's always been my take on the character.
 
Garak's being Cardassian is central to who he is. Their natural paranoia and xenophobia led them to create their elite intelligence organisation, to monitor its own people as much as other races, weed out dissent and purge those who don't abide by the rule and control of the state, given their loyalty, duty and devotion to Cardassia is at the forefront of their culture. Growing up in that, as the illegitimate son of the head of the Obsidian Order, would warp his ideology so when he lost that and was cast out he had to build himself up with all he'd learned and still find a way to do his duty to the state and find a way to return. But that's always been my take on the character.

^This Garak as he is in DS9 can only exist as a Cardassian (or maybe a Romulan) it's central to his character, central to his storyline, central to his culture.
 
I'm perfectly fine with most of the crew being human because ultimately the show is about us.
Discovery is the most human crew outside of TOS but also the most diverse by far and to me that's far more important than more aliens.

Burnham
Saru
Stamets
Tilly
Culber
Georgiou
Nhan
Book
Reno
Detmer
Owosekun
Bryce
Rhys
Pollard
Nielsen
Adira
Linus
Vance

18 regular or recurring characters and not a single straight white male and only 6 white characters and 8 male characters. That's awesome and the kind of diversity Star Trek needs.
 
Deltans wanting to serve in Starfleet must take their Oath of Celibacy, for such a hyper-sexual species I could see this having serious issues somewhere down the line (especially if they are the only Deltan on the ship so have no outlet). It could raise some interesting questions around why, is it harmful to non-Deltans physically or mentally, is there something Deltans carry that doesn't effect them but is the equivalent of space-herpes to other races, or is it merely social conventions of other races force them to suppress a key part of their culture merely to fit in? What if a Deltan breaks their vow, is that cause for legal proceedings or punishment in some way (maybe something we'd see as inhumane). What if the idea of Deltans not having sex with other races is something for them to maintain "racial purity", and what if a Deltan female then became pregnant to a Bajoran/Human/Tellarite shipmate what would her fate and the fate of her child be?

Granted some of these topics could be covered with a human crewmember, but with humans seemingly being so evolved by Trek times then it makes it difficult to introduce some concepts. There could be a female character raised on a xenophobic pro-human/anti-alien colony who left for her differing beliefs, then in Starfleet becomes pregnant to an alien shipmate, whilst the crew doesn't bat an eye she could return home at some point for some convoluted reason, either to face being disowned entirely or miraculously changing the bigoted beliefs of her family with the birth of her half-alien child.
If that is the case for the story then it has possibility of a story. But, the Deltans would need to be well fleshed out to support it, otherwise it could be done with humans just as easily.
 
If that is the case for the story then it has possibility of a story. But, the Deltans would need to be well fleshed out to support it, otherwise it could be done with humans just as easily.
A well fleshed out, likeable character is always key, you don't need to necessarily relate with them to enjoy them and be willing to go with them on their journey. Deltans as a species are pretty much blank slates having only had one on screen appearance, so any direction could be taken with them in order to make their culture and society very alien but also reflect aspects of modern day Earth to be examined in some sort of sci-fi context.
 
A well fleshed out, likeable character is always key, you don't need to necessarily relate with them to enjoy them and be willing to go with them on their journey. Deltans as a species are pretty much blank slates having only had one on screen appearance, so any direction could be taken with them in order to make their culture and society very alien but also reflect aspects of modern day Earth to be examined in some sort of sci-fi context.
I don't have to relate to them at all. I just need to understand their point of view. Which is why I want more than just rubber foreheads. I'm sure I sound super repetitive at this point and maybe I'm arguing against straw people but I feel like so many episodes of Trek just slap foreheads on and call it good.
 
I don't have to relate to them at all. I just need to understand their point of view. Which is why I want more than just rubber foreheads. I'm sure I sound super repetitive at this point and maybe I'm arguing against straw people but I feel like so many episodes of Trek just slap foreheads on and call it good.
There are a lot of species that suffer from the "alien of week" trope and have no depth to them other than being an ally/enemy/mystery the crew encounter once and then never seen or heard of again. Whilst its nice to flesh out the universe a little these two-dimensional races rarely give much of interest, which then results in the creators falling back on the likes of the Klingons or Borg time and again, which pushes them beyond the point of exhaustion and doesn't do anything all that interesting with them (often removing their sense of threat/menace). The Cardassians and Ferengi could've had the same fate, but you just need to watch DS9 to see all the world building that went on there, especially with the latter who went from being a joke to being very complex (mainly thanks to some great characters).

Having aliens for the sake of having them is fine for in the background, it expands the universe, but having them on the main or recurring cast and having them just be humans with "rubber foreheads" is waste potential and shows the limitations of those working of the show. If a character is alien, then make them alien, give them different viewpoints that will make the humans react in bewildered ways, have their culture allow us to explore the human condition from an outside perspective, have an aspect of the behaviour cause shock and outrage in the viewers if only to make them think about their reaction and consider the opposite side of the argument. For me, all of that is the strength of alien races, we get to see the best and worst of ourselves mirrored in them and explored to see the merits and pitfalls of our beliefs, actions, etc.
 
I kinda feel the Bajorans were a wasted opportunity. The reality of the Prophets being aliens should have erupted a major Reformation movement on the planet with holy wars being fought and whatnot.

I think that argument is based on the assumption that there's a dichotomy between the Prophets being gods and the Prophets being aliens, but that's an idea based on a priori assumptions common to Western culture in real life. Bajoran culture might not draw any such distinction between "god" and "alien." Indeed, a Bajoran might argue, "Well of course gods would have to be aliens! They can't be native to Bajor if They created Bajor!"

Deltans wanting to serve in Starfleet must take their Oath of Celibacy, for such a hyper-sexual species I could see this having serious issues somewhere down the line (especially if they are the only Deltan on the ship so have no outlet). It could raise some interesting questions around why, is it harmful to non-Deltans physically or mentally, is there something Deltans carry that doesn't effect them but is the equivalent of space-herpes to other races, or is it merely social conventions of other races force them to suppress a key part of their culture merely to fit in?

In Christopher L. Bennett's ENT: Rise of the Federation novels, he establishes that Deltan empathic or telepathic abilities mean that sex with a Deltan tends to cause Humans to develop such intense emotions as to lose their sense of individual identity. Deltans are very open with their sexuality and don't realize that sex with Humans is harmful to Humans until after they offer it when contact is established; this leads to Deltans pledging not to have sex with Humans or other such species going forward.

Garak's being Cardassian is central to who he is. Their natural paranoia and xenophobia

There is no evidence whatsoever that paranoia and xenophobia are "natural" or caused by their biology. That's ridiculous essentialist thinking. In fact, TNG's "Chain of Command" establishes that a prior Cardassian civilization called the Hebetians were an open, un-hierarhicical, spiritual people. The paranoia and xenophobia we see in 2360s-2370s Cardassia are the result of cultural and political factors, not biological.
 
I want them to delve into the other Federation races more. In Star Trek IV we see Aammazarans, Ariolo, Arcadians, Bzzit Khaht, Caitians, Deltans, Kasheeta, and Xelatians. I want to see crew members from at leats one of these species as they are likely major Federation members
 
I want them to delve into the other Federation races more. In Star Trek IV we see Aammazarans, Ariolo, Arcadians, Bzzit Khaht, Caitians, Deltans, Kasheeta, and Xelatians. I want to see crew members from at leats one of these species as they are likely major Federation members

Don't forget the aliens in Star Trek: The Motion Picture, 1979. Costume designer Bob Fletcher wrote articles describing the exotic aliens, most frm Federation worlds, in the film.

https://forgottentrek.com/forgotten-aliens-of-the-motion-picture/
 
In terms of human cultures it would be relatively easy to create a cosmopolitan feel.

In Firefly/Serenity there was a blending of Asian and Western cultures. This included the actors uttering Chinese curses, and the appearance of kanji.

Pitch Black featured ethnic costumes.
 
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