How to change from Homosapiens only club?
- Thread starter valkyrie013
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Less Homo sapiens nowadays is the way of Star Trek to show people the cultural diversity is important and actually is the future.
It is important to show that the „earth way“ is not the blue print for the whole universe. This insight can be transferred to cultural, ethnical diversity and so on ...
Of course it is expensive, but it’s an important part of showing the ideology of Star Trek in showing the people today their Problems, by showing them a similar solution in the future
It is important to show that the „earth way“ is not the blue print for the whole universe. This insight can be transferred to cultural, ethnical diversity and so on ...
Of course it is expensive, but it’s an important part of showing the ideology of Star Trek in showing the people today their Problems, by showing them a similar solution in the future
which doesn't work if the aliens have a culture or mindset which is basically Human.
For me they are.
And "realistically" we have no proof how evolution on another planet would work. Similar environment might very well lead to similar body plans. And Star Trek has an explanation for the prevalence of humanoids, whether it's a good explanation is not as important to me as whether it's consistent.
And that's fair. Just not for me.
evolution in Trek is silly. You just have to accept it or go with some premise of a guiding hand over the centuries, not just at the beginning.
A look at the Burgess shale shows some of the really interesting and strange (to us) ways life could have developed on earth. What if an ingelligent species had developed from Hallucegenia instead of protomammals. What if it had done it 200 million years early? We won't know. And it's not necessarily because of survival of the fittest. They might just have been at the wrong place at the wrong time during the Cambrian extinction event. "Shit happens" seems to factor into nature as much as genetic adaptation.
It would be nice to have aliens that are alien, with different values and purposes. The rare times those differences appear, star trek writers tend to use them as some symbol for evil. The Borg could have been portrayed as a hive mind that defends itself viciously, but the drones enjoy an idyllic virtual paradise on their off-hours. They came close to attempting that, but they dropped the ball. Instead: Hive Mind Bad, Good Human Good. The Vulcans, with higher IQ's, longer lifespans, better physical qualities, are superior to humans by just about any rubric. They should be running things, so should Romulans. Klingons should have self destructed or never made it much further past nuclear weapons.
They haven't always done a bad job with a different species. I think the Trill and the Ferengi were especially well done in Ds9. The Tholians are likewise so alien they're still not really understood in Trek, nor the Breen.
We just have to live with the flaws in the universe because at the end of it all, we all love the universe anyway.
A look at the Burgess shale shows some of the really interesting and strange (to us) ways life could have developed on earth. What if an ingelligent species had developed from Hallucegenia instead of protomammals. What if it had done it 200 million years early? We won't know. And it's not necessarily because of survival of the fittest. They might just have been at the wrong place at the wrong time during the Cambrian extinction event. "Shit happens" seems to factor into nature as much as genetic adaptation.
It would be nice to have aliens that are alien, with different values and purposes. The rare times those differences appear, star trek writers tend to use them as some symbol for evil. The Borg could have been portrayed as a hive mind that defends itself viciously, but the drones enjoy an idyllic virtual paradise on their off-hours. They came close to attempting that, but they dropped the ball. Instead: Hive Mind Bad, Good Human Good. The Vulcans, with higher IQ's, longer lifespans, better physical qualities, are superior to humans by just about any rubric. They should be running things, so should Romulans. Klingons should have self destructed or never made it much further past nuclear weapons.
They haven't always done a bad job with a different species. I think the Trill and the Ferengi were especially well done in Ds9. The Tholians are likewise so alien they're still not really understood in Trek, nor the Breen.
We just have to live with the flaws in the universe because at the end of it all, we all love the universe anyway.
Don't get me wrong I like non-humanoid aliens as well as humanoid aliens and to me they both have their place in Trek (or should have, we regrettably don't get that many)
With humanoid aliens you have the opportunity to explore their cultures and how they relate to humans, and you can do story-lines like the Bajorans and the Cardassians.
With non-humanoid aliens you can explore more exotic stories.
Modern reconstructions of the Hallucegenia aren't all that strange anymore. Look at the one in the article, it's close to some form of long legged velvet worm Though there are some other weird creatures like T.Heraldicum, which might have been a tri-symetrical organism.
If you're telling me stories with these characters about their alien culture then yes.
If they are just background, then no.
I'm not saying I want background aliens all the time, always. But on occassion, like Linus in Discovery or Morn and the various Promenade/Dabo Girl aliens in DS9 or things like the council scenes in the Star Trek movies it's cool, imho (as I said, if it builds atmosphere) and it's also often were we get the more creative alien makeup because those actors don't have to talk or emote much.
But yeah of course using them to tell stories is of course the way to go. Which is why I said I was disappointed with Troi as an alien, since Betazoid culture was pretty much never used to tell a story and neither was her half-alien status ever focused on. Despite the potential a psionic species could have had when it comes to story telling.
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I think DS9 proved you can have plenty of aliens without breaking the budget, especially if your aliens don't require hours in the makeup chair.
Background aliens are essential I'd say, just to help make the universe feel more real, more lived in, and more diverse, rather than just seeing humans or human-looking aliens everywhere.
What's the tipping point though? I keep seeing this "it makes it feel more diverse" but is it one alien that helps? It's a curiosity of mine to just thrown appliances on a person and say "You're an alien" and that's considered good enough?
Not trying to be argumentative but I feel like the bar is being set in a strange way, unless I'm missing something.
Also, and this may sound terrible in a Trek fandom, Trek already struggles with portraying human diversity well. Could we try doing that good too?
Having background aliens is a matter of immersion. We're told the Federation is an equal alliance of hundreds of planets then it creates a dissonance if everyone is human and everything revolves around Earth.
What's the tipping point though? I keep seeing this "it makes it feel more diverse" but is it one alien that helps? It's a curiosity of mine to just thrown appliances on a person and say "You're an alien" and that's considered good enough?
Not trying to be argumentative but I feel like the bar is being set in a strange way, unless I'm missing something.
As I keep repeating atmosphere and world building. Like for example you want to set a scene that supposed to take place in a far-off, strange and unexplored corner of the universe you can get that across easily by showing a few actors in strange alien make-up. It communicates to the audience that we aren't in "human space". It's visual story telling.
Or when you show a scene where the federation senate debates the crisis of the day and you show a bunch of alien deligates, then it communicates to the audience that this is an issue of interstellar importance.
Or the Mos Eisley Cantina Scene where, for a couple seconds you just see a bunch of characters in bewildering or intimidating alien makeup and masks (including a literal devil) It easily communicates that farmboy Luke is entering a wild, strange and dangerous galaxy.
In addition to that people like seeing exiting and weird places/creatures/sapients/etc I know you constantly discard that, but it's still the truth for a lot of people. It allows for creativity. All that good stuff.
For me seeing aliens in the background just adds a little texture to things. They don't need to be named or have lines, but just be there to show that they're always around and that's perfectly normal and accepted, almost like a metaphor for human differences (given that by the 23rd/24th century all the things that separate us now are no longer a thing, with ones sex/gender, race, ability, etc being embraced), but that's just how things are in my head.
Ain't nothing wrong with some healthy debateNot trying to be argumentative but I feel like the bar is being set in a strange way, unless I'm missing something.
Trek has really dropped the ball with being at the forefront of inclusion and diversity, pretty much since TNG. Though it's a series I don't watch, Discovery is finally addressing LGBT+ representation, despite a script being written early in TNGs run that would've seen a same sex couple included.Also, and this may sound terrible in a Trek fandom, Trek already struggles with portraying human diversity well. Could we try doing that good too?
The problem I find with Trek humans is really due to the melting pot that humanity has become, since all differences are now a moot point then the culture has pretty much blended into something that by its very nature makes tackling stories on diversity not really mean much in the context of the show, unless they're dealing with alien races that have differing viewpoints on gender roles, racial purity, etc. I always see the aliens as standing in for who we are now, dealing with issues and causing conflicts with the idealised versions of what we can become (from the lust for profit of the Ferengi, the Klingons and their need to fight wars and yearn for violence, or the religious extremism of the Bajorans, whilst humanity has moved beyond all of these destructive behaviours). I hope that makes sense, I'm somewhat sleep deprived right now and am probably rambling incoherently, so I'll need to read it back in the morning after getting some kip
Also, and this may sound terrible in a Trek fandom, Trek already struggles with portraying human diversity well. Could we try doing that good too?
Absolutely! I think DS9 really provides a model for how to portray both fictitious diversity of species, and real-life diversity of Humans. DS9 was a show where the aliens outnumbered the Humans, but the Humans were themselves very diverse -- an African American captain and his son and an Arab-English doctor. While a number of the aliens were "coded" as white (Kira, Quark, Odo), the only actual in-universe white guy on the show was O'Brien.
So I think both DIS and DS9 prove that you can have diverse Human characters, and DS9 proves you can combine diverse Human characters with fictitious diversity of aliens. The one difficulty is in "coding" the aliens -- you don't want all the aliens to come across as being coded as white, but you also want to avoid accidentally invoking dehumanizing stereotypes if you code aliens as non-white (as the Klingons are often coded, for instance).
I'm not trying to discard anything. I am trying, and failing, to understand what is the benefit beyond texture. Or is texture the point? Because, for me, the point is to feel that these are people, this is a society, and throwing in random appliance human aliens seems to be missing that.
If our heroes are going to an alien world then obviously there should be aliens. I'm not discounting that at all. As @Sci notes, DS9 did a good job of making that aliens apart of the world, but I knew what aliens they were.
I guess it comes too I don't want random aliens in the background. I want to know what aliens they are. Abrams and TOS both struggled with this were random aliens would show up but we knew nothing about them. That's what is missing for me. If its a big hodge podge of aliens then it feels very meaningless, like background noise. And, maybe that's what people want is a background noise of aliens that expands the world. But, I feel like if I know nothing about them then the world doesn't feel very expanded. It leaves me with more questions than any thing else.
Hopefully that makes sense.
thanks! I didn't know that.
The great minds of Starfleet science department should be able to come up with thermals to keep the Vulcans warm no matter where they are and clothing to keep the Andorians cool.
They are meant to be the brightest and the best.
If one is sending out ships for 5 years to explore and represent the great UFP at least in universe try to look like the great UFP.
'We represent the United Federation of Planets but almost everyone on the ship is indigenous to Earth' does not cut it. Its a shame DISC still carries on the humancentric Starfleet.
They are meant to be the brightest and the best.
If one is sending out ships for 5 years to explore and represent the great UFP at least in universe try to look like the great UFP.
'We represent the United Federation of Planets but almost everyone on the ship is indigenous to Earth' does not cut it. Its a shame DISC still carries on the humancentric Starfleet.
its possible the other members dont' contribute as much in materials, ships, or crew volunteers.
