How the Romulans and Romulus Went Out in and After Nemesis, So Many Problems

[WB2]

In fact, it's likely that Romulus represented only a small portion of the Romulan population.

Why would that be likely?

 

[locutus101]

Why would that be likely?

Romulus wasn't their homeworld, it was Vulcan. Romulus was one of the world they colonized after they left vulcan. It stands to reason that it was one of many. They had the whole galaxy, why would they limit themselves to one world?

 

[WB2]

Well colonies are usually small, expensive and not effective in the long run. I'd venture to say their home planet had the absolute majority of people. Maybe colonies scattered around with a couple of hundred thousand people at most.

 

[locutus101]

Well colonies are usually small, expensive and not effective in the long run. I'd venture to say their home planet had the absolute majority of people. Maybe colonies scattered around with a couple of hundred thousand people at most.

Except that Romulus is not a homeworld, it's a colony itself.

Besides, the USA was initially made of colonies. Colonies grow and they often surpass the countries that spawned them. I don't know where you get this idea that colonies remain small.

 

[WB2]

Except that Romulus is not a homeworld, it's a colony itself.

Besides, the USA was initially made of colonies. Colonies grow and they often surpass the countries that spawned them. I don't know where you get this idea that colonies remain small.

Theres absolutely nothing implying that the Romulans are still on Vulcan. To call Romulus a colony is like calling the US a colony. For all intents and purposes Romulus is the Romulan homeworld.

 

[locutus101]

Theres absolutely nothing implying that the Romulans are still on Vulcan. To call Romulus a colony is like calling the US a colony. For all intents and purposes Romulus is the Romulan homeworld.

The US was a colony and yet it didn't remain small. That's in direct contradiction with your assumption that colonies remain small.

 

[WB2]

Before the US got its independance the total population wasnt much more than 2 million. It wasn't until the huge influx of immigrants to the new country of USA from many OTHER countries that the population grew in significant numbers

 

[locutus101]

Before the US got its independance the total population wasnt much more than 2 million. It wasn't until the huge influx of immigrants to the new country of USA from many OTHER countries that the population grew in significant numbers

The US had only a few centuries to grow to 2 million. The colonies that included romulus had millenia, more than enough time to grow to two billion or more.

 

[Relayer1]

Any starfaring race would be ridiculously inept to have its civilisation and survival tied to one world. Just for diversity of resources and freedom to expand, major colonisation efforts would be required.

I'd expect Earth to have millions of humans resident elsewhere by the time of TOS and it hardly stands to reason that the expansionist Klingons and Romulans would be any different.

 

[BillJ]

Any starfaring race would be ridiculously inept to have its civilisation and survival tied to one world. Just for diversity of resources and freedom to expand, major colonisation efforts would be required.

This. The Romulans are an interstellar empire. Taking out Romulus would be a major blow, but not a crippling one.

 

[locutus101]

Any starfaring race would be ridiculously inept to have its civilisation and survival tied to one world. Just for diversity of resources and freedom to expand, major colonisation efforts would be required.

I'd expect Earth to have millions of humans resident elsewhere by the time of TOS and it hardly stands to reason that the expansionist Klingons and Romulans would be any different.

That's exactly the point I was making.

 

[Timo]

The best strategy of survival ITRW may instead be one of remaining hidden. If one world of a civilization gets exposed, then no doubt all eventually will, by the very same means. And the odds of such total extinction happening are increased if the number of planets revealing the existence of the civilization increases.

In any case, "Gambit" describes the Debrune as Romulan offshoot, so we know for sure that the Romulans spanned multiple systems. It's just that we can't be sure that any of the other systems would have remained part of the Romulan Star Empire. I mean, the Debrune apparently did not. And the Romulans appear to have seceded in the first place in order to retain their right to secede... Their hate-thy-neighbor attitude would probably have survived their interstellar exodus.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Greg Cox]

Why would that be likely?

Because it's called the Romulan Star Empire, not the Romulan Planet?

"Empire" kinda implies expansion.

 

[Seven of Five]

Precisely.

Whether they were still up for peace, or became even more isolationist, it doesn't matter. There would be plenty of Romulans left and the story potential would be high.

Of course we're still theoretical.

 

[locutus101]

Precisely.

Whether they were still up for peace, or became even more isolationist, it doesn't matter. There would be plenty of Romulans left and the story potential would be high.

Of course we're still theoretical.

However the Vulcans had only ten thousand people off world. That seems like such a small number.

 

[Seven of Five]

True, but the Vulcans didn't have an empire like the Romulans. The destruction of Vulcan would be more devastating to the Vulcan population than the destruction of Romulus.

 

[Timo]

We didn't really know whether Vulcan had an empire (Vulcania?) until the 2009 movie. In retrospect, it's a good thing there never was an unambiguous reference to a Vulcan colony world - the closest thing is the Vulcanis Lunar Colony, birthplace of Tuvok, quite possibly located on Earth's own Luna...

Romulans are Vulcans, though. Sticking to a single planet, even against reason (say, when said planet is a hellhole fundamentally unsuited for Vulcanoid life, such as Vulcan herself), might be deeply ingrained in the Vulcanoid psyche or biology - even if the desire to name every one of those single planets a Galactic Empire of Multiversal Might is in there, too.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[locutus101]

We didn't really know whether Vulcan had an empire (Vulcania?) until the 2009 movie. In retrospect, it's a good thing there never was an unambiguous reference to a Vulcan colony world - the closest thing is the Vulcanis Lunar Colony, birthplace of Tuvok, quite possibly located on Earth's own Luna...

Romulans are Vulcans, though. Sticking to a single planet, even against reason (say, when said planet is a hellhole fundamentally unsuited for Vulcanoid life, such as Vulcan herself), might be deeply ingrained in the Vulcanoid psyche or biology - even if the desire to name every one of those single planets a Galactic Empire of Multiversal Might is in there, too.

Timo Saloniemi

Romulans are of Vulcan descent but they are fundamentally different from the typical Vulcans in many ways, for one thing they don't have logic to guide them.

 

[Relayer1]

True, but the Vulcans didn't have an empire like the Romulans. The destruction of Vulcan would be more devastating to the Vulcan population than the destruction of Romulus.

Even so, I'd expect most of the main Federation planets to have thousands of Vulcans resident or visiting, hundreds on each foreign planet with an embassy or trade delegation, thousands on Vulcan ships, perhaps tens or hundreds of thousands on colonies.

 

[locutus101]

Even so, I'd expect most of the main Federation planets to have thousands of Vulcans resident or visiting, hundreds on each foreign planet with an embassy or trade delegation, thousands on Vulcan ships, perhaps tens or hundreds of thousands on colonies.

That's what I would have thought as well given that Vulcans has had warp technology for millennia.