How the Doctor perceives the world

[Kibbin]

I don't mind it because it doesn't really see to grant him any extra abilities or anything, just means he's different, the fetishizing comes later on when everyone goes oh doctor you're so brilliant and he starts mind melding and so on, the line from rose was a good one to set him apart and place him slightly above us in the way we precieve the world around us without actually doing much.

 

[Sci]

I don't know how anyone can bitch about the "fetishizing" of the Doctor or who he's made divine or perfect when the whole point of episodes like "The Waters of Mars" was how fundamentally imperfect he really is.

 

[DimesDan]

I don't know how anyone can bitch about the "fetishizing" of the Doctor or who he's made divine or perfect when the whole point of episodes like "The Waters of Mars" was how fundamentally imperfect he really is.

Because people are different and we can often see things differently even when something is intended to be a certain way. We're human beings with a brain and independent thought, we are not mindless drones afterall.

 

[Sci]

I don't know how anyone can bitch about the "fetishizing" of the Doctor or who he's made divine or perfect when the whole point of episodes like "The Waters of Mars" was how fundamentally imperfect he really is.

Because people are different and we can often see things differently even when something is intended to be a certain way. We're human beings with a brain and independent thought, we are not mindless drones afterall.

Yeah, but claiming that RTD-era Who deifies the Doctor is a bit like claiming that The Gospel According to St. John depicts Jesus as just a human being. It's a clear contradiction of the actual, incredibly obvious, message.

 

[Stevil2001]

I don't think anyone could watch "The Next Doctor" and successfully not claim that there's some Doctor deification going on. Not that I have a problem with it-- he is pretty dang amazing.

As far as this thread topic goes, the Doctor's different perception of the universe is pretty clearly established in the old series, though-- think of the cafe scene in City of Death.

 

[David cgc]

As far as this thread topic goes, the Doctor's different perception of the universe is pretty clearly established in the old series, though-- think of the cafe scene in City of Death.

I just recently saw that, and was thrilled that it was pretty much the same thing that happened in "The Lodger" where time started skipping like a record but the Doctor kept marching relentlessly forward.

 

[Admiral_Young]

I never have had a problem with deifying the Doctor or "festishizing"...perhaps this is a notion of modern day writing compared with the Classic Series (which I've still not seen enough of to compare) but I too took that piece of dialogue to mean that RTD was attempting to relate to the viewer through Rose that this man was different and alien as someone above me put it well. The Doctor is different than us. I was sold on Chris the moment he told Rose to run...

 

[DimesDan]

I don't know how anyone can bitch about the "fetishizing" of the Doctor or who he's made divine or perfect when the whole point of episodes like "The Waters of Mars" was how fundamentally imperfect he really is.

Because people are different and we can often see things differently even when something is intended to be a certain way. We're human beings with a brain and independent thought, we are not mindless drones afterall.

Yeah, but claiming that RTD-era Who deifies the Doctor is a bit like claiming that The Gospel According to St. John depicts Jesus as just a human being. It's a clear contradiction of the actual, incredibly obvious, message.

Maybe, maybe not. I have no time for religion and what's contained with in the bible in my opinion is no more real as Doctor Who or Star Trek. Just because someone says that something needs to be interrupted a certain way, does not mean that everyone will see it that way.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

I don't know how anyone can bitch about the "fetishizing" of the Doctor or who he's made divine or perfect when the whole point of episodes like "The Waters of Mars" was how fundamentally imperfect he really is.

Because people are different and we can often see things differently even when something is intended to be a certain way. We're human beings with a brain and independent thought, we are not mindless drones afterall.

Yeah, but claiming that RTD-era Who deifies the Doctor is a bit like claiming that The Gospel According to St. John depicts Jesus as just a human being. It's a clear contradiction of the actual, incredibly obvious, message.

John is such a hack with his Jewish agenda and all, I can't wait until Luke takes over, his gospel will be so much better.

Seriously though, Mars doesn't really wash out the image of the Doctor floating in the air bathed in etheral light as millions worship him resurrecting him before he bestows forgiveness on the Master.

 

[Starkers]

^Yup, for an athiest RTD really loves his religious iconography!

 

[Bones2]

^
He certainly loves to have a god in the machine.

 

[Sci]

Because people are different and we can often see things differently even when something is intended to be a certain way. We're human beings with a brain and independent thought, we are not mindless drones afterall.

Yeah, but claiming that RTD-era Who deifies the Doctor is a bit like claiming that The Gospel According to St. John depicts Jesus as just a human being. It's a clear contradiction of the actual, incredibly obvious, message.

Maybe, maybe not. I have no time for religion and what's contained with in the bible in my opinion is no more real as Doctor Who or Star Trek.

The reality of religion is not what I was talking about. I was talking about the obvious message of a work of art.

Just because someone says that something needs to be interrupted a certain way, does not mean that everyone will see it that way.

1. The word you're looking for is "interpreted," not "interrupted."

2. There's certainly room for disagreements of interpretation with some works. Where there's ambiguity, certainly. But some works of art have clear and unambiguous messages. Nineteen Eighty-Four says that totalitarianism and tyranny are bad. The Gospel According to St. John says that Jesus is divine. To Kill A Mockingbird says that racism is bad. And RTD's Doctor Who says that the Doctor is not perfect.

Seriously though, Mars doesn't really wash out the image of the Doctor floating in the air bathed in etheral light as millions worship him resurrecting him before he bestows forgiveness on the Master.

Except that that image was a subversion of religious imagery. The Doctor isn't being worshipped, he's being telepathically lent energy. And the Doctor even specifically identifies the source of that power as humanity, not himself. "Look at what the human race can do!"

 

[Starkers]

Look what the human race can do, when I get my apostle to get the human race to blindly believe in me. He might have used the human race to save them, but he clearly used them all the same.

 

[The]

Yeah I liked that line, I don't think it makes him Godly, it makes him alien.

 

[The]

Yeah, but claiming that RTD-era Who deifies the Doctor is a bit like claiming that The Gospel According to St. John depicts Jesus as just a human being. It's a clear contradiction of the actual, incredibly obvious, message.

I think the message you speak of is only "obvious" in Waters of Mars.

The Sound of Drums, however, has Martha convince the human race to believe in The Doctor, place their faith in him and pray to him like a deity, so that he might defeat evil and save them. THAT is the only "obvious" message for this episode.

While I wouldn't go so far extreme as to say that The Doctor is always written like that during RTD's era, it's a foregone fact that it did exist, written by Russel T. Davies...

 

[Sci]

Yeah, but claiming that RTD-era Who deifies the Doctor is a bit like claiming that The Gospel According to St. John depicts Jesus as just a human being. It's a clear contradiction of the actual, incredibly obvious, message.

I think the message you speak of is only "obvious" in Waters of Mars.

No, it's obvious in quite a few episodes -- in "Dalek," in "The Doctor Dances," in "Boom Town," in "Bad Wolf," in "The Parting of the Ways," in "School Reunion," in "The Runaway Bride," in "Gridlock," in "Human Nature"/"The Family of Blood," in "The Sound of Drums," in "The Fires of Pompeii," in "Midnight," in "Journey's End," in "The Waters of Mars," in "The End of Time, Part Two." In all of these episodes, the Doctor makes morally ambiguous choices that the episode is not clearly endorsing, or he makes a major mistake, or he behaves in a selfish manner, or he becomes extremely emotionally vulnerable, or he generally behaves like an asshole.

The Sound of Drums, however, has Martha convince the human race to believe in The Doctor, place their faith in him and pray to him like a deity, so that he might defeat evil and save them.

No, it has Martha telling people who the Doctor is and then telepathically channeling their own psychic energy to him, allowing him to channel humanity's own psychic energy into defeating the Master. The Doctor is just humanity's vessel -- that's why he specifically cites the greatness of humanity as he defeats the Master.

 

[Stevil2001]

2. There's certainly room for disagreements of interpretation with some works. Where there's ambiguity, certainly. But some works of art have clear and unambiguous messages. Nineteen Eighty-Four says that totalitarianism and tyranny are bad. The Gospel According to St. John says that Jesus is divine. To Kill A Mockingbird says that racism is bad. And RTD's Doctor Who says that the Doctor is not perfect.

To be fair-- some works claim to have clear and unambiguous messages, but aren't actually 100% successful in presenting them.

 

[Starkers]

Yeah, but claiming that RTD-era Who deifies the Doctor is a bit like claiming that The Gospel According to St. John depicts Jesus as just a human being. It's a clear contradiction of the actual, incredibly obvious, message.

I think the message you speak of is only "obvious" in Waters of Mars.

No, it's obvious in quite a few episodes -- in "Dalek," in "The Doctor Dances," in "Boom Town," in "Bad Wolf," in "The Parting of the Ways," in "School Reunion," in "The Runaway Bride," in "Gridlock," in "Human Nature"/"The Family of Blood," in "The Sound of Drums," in "The Fires of Pompeii," in "Midnight," in "Journey's End," in "The Waters of Mars," in "The End of Time, Part Two." In all of these episodes, the Doctor makes morally ambiguous choices that the episode is not clearly endorsing, or he makes a major mistake, or he behaves in a selfish manner, or he becomes extremely emotionally vulnerable, or he generally behaves like an asshole.

The Sound of Drums, however, has Martha convince the human race to believe in The Doctor, place their faith in him and pray to him like a deity, so that he might defeat evil and save them.

No, it has Martha telling people who the Doctor is and then telepathically channeling their own psychic energy to him, allowing him to channel humanity's own psychic energy into defeating the Master. The Doctor is just humanity's vessel -- that's why he specifically cites the greatness of humanity as he defeats the Master.

What's great about blindly chanting some (potentially)imaginary blokes name?

 

[Rowan Sjet]

In all of these episodes, the Doctor makes morally ambiguous choices that the episode is not clearly endorsing, or he makes a major mistake, or he behaves in a selfish manner, or he becomes extremely emotionally vulnerable, or he generally behaves like an asshole.

I don't see how this doesn't make the Doctor godlike. Human myth is full of Gods with all these faults.

 

[Kibbin]

So the faith of humanity gives this guy power, with more faith equaling more power. Starnge that's how it works in the discworld novels who were also written by an atheist. Don't know what this has to do with anything , just throwing it out there.



Oh P.S the characters did love the doctor a bit too much, I never thought I'd be glad to see Catherine Tate, granted I will never be glad to see her again but still